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wel_mel_2 · 02-09-2007, 02:55 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:I stand by my "claim". Your apologetic's explanation implies that the Ayat is outdated & no longer valid. Of course this is not the case because as a Muslim, you must believe that the Qur'an is timeless. That command applies today just as much as it did 1500 years ago.

It is valid of course and can be applied to any similar situation today, but you cant just read it out of context and say that the Qur’an said so and so… this is only during War… not just by being a Non Muslim that will give me any right to kill you, this is lame!! and also you have to read the following verses to understand the entire command of God, that if an enemy asked for asylum, he should be granted what he asked for and to be sent to a place of security, WHEN?????? During War also.

Do you know that according to the Bible, you should execute me if I invited you to Islam? Ohhhh please don’t tell me this is the OT and that we should not follow it , because if you believe that Jesus is God, then to me he is the God of Old and New Testament as well (remember father and son cannot be separated). So read what Jesus said, and please remember that the Jews today are following ONLY the OT; so are you against the Jews if they follow and obey this command of God?

Quote:I totally agree that Islam is a peaceful religion... but only if you are a Muslim!!!

Oh yeah, and that’s why when Prophet Muhammad pbuh came back to Mecca after years of persecution on the hands of Pagans, they expected Muhammad pbuh to kill thme, or to make them slaves, or take away their properties as they did to him in the past; they were extremely worried and wondered what declaration Prophet Muhammad pbuh was going to make. But what did he do FHC??? He told them:

what do you expect me to do? They answered you are a generous brother and a son of a generous brother… so he told them “Today there will be no blame on you for anything and no one will harm you anyway, go you are totally free.

He didn’t even ask them to embrace Islam, There is no other such example in the history of mankind to show this excellent behavior towards the enemies. If Islam is a peaceful religion only among Muslims, then the Prophet pbuh should have not left any Non Muslim in Mecca the moment he conquest it.

Also the Prophet once said: “I shall plead on the day of judgment on behalf of a disbeliever who was harmed or whose due right was diminished or if more than bearable pressure was exerted on him or if something was taken from him without his consent by a believer.”

This is sufficient enough to refute your statement.

Quote:Wael, generally speaking, I know how you feel about this issue & you know how I feel. It is pointless to keep coming back to it. I have read Muslimah's thread on apostasy & jihad & quite frankly, unless certain Ayats miraculously disappear from every copy of the Qur'an, you & I will never see eye to eye. I'm letting it go, man, because it is just too devastating. I cannot blame you because you are simply trying to obey Allah's command & do what you think is right. I am just grateful that the majority of Muslims in the West have traded in these Ayats for the UDHR. Insh a Allah, more Muslims will jump on board too. If not, then I will stash some money away in case I have to pay jaziya down the track. So be it! Jesus lives in my heart!

You people think that we are not aware of what is happening in the West? I just came back from Europe and visited Germany, France, Italy and Spain… I enjoyed talking to Italians inside this amazing Church called “Doumo Church”… I also met a lot of Muslims who strive hard to clarify these misconceptions amongst Non Muslims and so far they are successful masha Allah and the proof is that I was treated with all respect wherever I go and whenever people know that I am a Muslim. Alhamdulelah.

And by the way, Jesus pbuh and all other righteous Prophets live in our heart too.

Salam

Wael

Ruggedtouch · 02-09-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:I totally agree that Islam is a peaceful religion... but only if you are a Muslim!!!

Why make that statement when facts prove otherwise. There's nothing peaceful about islams global assault on humanity.

No other religion on the planet is used as a vehicle for mass murder as islam is used.

Faith Hope Charity · 02-10-2007, 02:54 AM

Glory be to the Father, & to the Son, & to the Holy Spirit.

Quote:Do you know that according to the Bible, you should execute me if I invited you to Islam? Ohhhh please don’t tell me this is the OT and that we should not follow it , because if you believe that Jesus is God, then to me he is the God of Old and New Testament as well (remember father and son cannot be separated). So read what Jesus said, and please remember that the Jews today are following ONLY the OT; so are you against the Jews if they follow and obey this command of God?

The word "Islam" isn't mentioned in the Holy Bible.

Both Testaments are equal. Jesus didn't change the Old Law, He fulfilled it. You also need to distinguish between God's commandmentss in the O/T & man-made rules (Mosaic Law).

I dare you to find me one Jew or Christian who believe that stoning a woman for committing adultery is still acceptable.

Quote:Hold it miss picky hehe!! :D

I think you better read the interpretation of this verse on Ibn Kathir Website

Haha! Comon, I'm not that picky!

I viewed the link, thank you! It supports my claim more than yours :lol:

Take care ya ahla Wael bil dinah :)

Ruggedtouch · (This post was last modified: 02-10-2007, 10:12 PM by Ruggedtouch.)

Quote:What is the Islamic goal behind our relationship with Non-Muslims?

9:33 It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions, though the Mushrik�n (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it). (Hilali and Khan, The Noble Qur'an, Riyadh: Darussalam, 1996, 2002; parenthetical notes are theirs)

This verse is repeated two more times, word for word, in Suras 61:9 and 48:28.

I'm concerned that infidels aren't really listening to what orthodox islam is telling us.

wel_mel_2 · 02-11-2007, 04:31 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:The word "Islam" isn't mentioned in the Holy Bible.

I know, but to invite you to Islam means to ask you to worship God alone without associating any partner with Him and to desist from worshipping Jesus pbuh and so according to your Bible you should kill me.

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)

This is your ‘Lord’ command FHC. Not the Old Testament.

Quote:Both Testaments are equal. Jesus didn't change the Old Law, He fulfilled it. You also need to distinguish between God's commandmentss in the O/T & man-made rules (Mosaic Law).

Ok, here is what God/Jesus ordered his people to do, it has nothing to do with "man made law". (please note that man made law in the Bible considered to be God's law because He is the one who inspired His prophets to do such things)

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE BOLD WORDS.

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16

Deut 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. 

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; 

Salam

Wael

Faith Hope Charity · 02-11-2007, 12:35 PM

Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth & goodwill to all.

Quote:I know, but to invite you to Islam means to ask you to worship God alone without associating any partner with Him and to desist from worshipping Jesus pbuh and so according to your Bible you should kill me.

Catholics worship One God & it would be a sin to assign Him partners.

The passage you quoted from St Luke's Gospel is a parable about a king & his servants. You turned it into a paradox :lol:

Quote:This is your ‘Lord’ command FHC. Not the Old Testament.

My Lord is the Lord of the Old & New Testaments. Blessed be His Most Sacred & Holy Name.

Quote:Ok, here is what God/Jesus ordered his people to do, it has nothing to do with "man made law". (please note that man made law in the Bible considered to be God's law because He is the one who inspired His prophets to do such things)

God doesn't inspire His prophets to sin.

Unless you're a Hittite, Girgashite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite or Jebusite, living before the time of Christ (Incarnation) & are attempting to destroy the Messianic line, you & your Islamic brothers/sisters have nothing to fear :)

In the N/T, God unites the Israelites (His chosen people for the O/T mission) to every other nation & all become one in Christ.

You need to invest some time in Bible study - hehehehehehehe!

Peace & Blessings From My God & Yours.

wel_mel_2 · 02-13-2007, 06:18 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:Catholics worship One God & it would be a sin to assign Him partners.

Catholics said that they worship One God, but they also call Him THREE.

Any person in the Trinity according to your faith can never be ONE COMPLETE GOD ON HIS OWN.

Quote:The passage you quoted from St Luke's Gospel is a parable about a king & his servants. You turned it into a paradox

Oh come on, most of the Biblical verses interpretations from the Christians view points are either insufficient, ambiguous or impossible, in which you cannot be 100% sure whether God REALLY intended such thing or not, your faith entirely depends on what the Church is telling you.

Quote:My Lord is the Lord of the Old & New Testaments. Blessed be His Most Sacred & Holy Name.

So he is the one who commanded you to kill anybody who invites you to worship other than him, even if they were your household.

Quote:God doesn't inspire His prophets to sin.

So when you read something in your Bible like ..."as the Lord your God has commanded you” what do you really understand? That this statement has nothing to do with God and that someone (who is supposed to be a Prophet) is telling lies against God?

Salam

wael.

Faith Hope Charity · 02-13-2007, 01:00 PM

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.

Peace be with you!

Quote:So when you read something in your Bible like ..."as the Lord your God has commanded you” what do you really understand? That this statement has nothing to do with God and that someone (who is supposed to be a Prophet) is telling lies against God?

Not at all! You need to be careful when reading the Old Testament. Not everything that comes out of a prophet's mouth is a command from God, sometimes they give orders based on their own discretion. You can usually work out the difference by reading entire passages rather than selected verses.

Sorry, I don't mean to ignore the rest of your post but we've already discussed those matters. You & I are turning IslamMessage into a Catholic forum! You're going to get me banned, dude - hehe!

Take care & God bless.

wel_mel_2 · 02-14-2007, 02:36 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.

Peace be with you!

Not at all! You need to be careful when reading the Old Testament. Not everything that comes out of a prophet's mouth is a command from God, sometimes they give orders based on their own discretion. You can usually work out the difference by reading entire passages rather than selected verses.

Sorry, I don't mean to ignore the rest of your post but we've already discussed those matters. You & I are turning IslamMessage into a Catholic forum! You're going to get me banned, dude - hehe!

Take care & God bless.

Clear FHC... Thanks.

Wael.

abdulwalee · 03-19-2007, 03:41 AM

Quote:Glory be to the Father, & to the Son, & to the Holy Spirit.

The word "Islam" isn't mentioned in the Holy Bible.

Both Testaments are equal. Jesus didn't change the Old Law, He fulfilled it. You also need to distinguish between God's commandmentss in the O/T & man-made rules (Mosaic Law).

I dare you to find me one Jew or Christian who believe that stoning a woman for committing adultery is still acceptable.

Haha! Comon, I'm not that picky!

I viewed the link, thank you! It supports my claim more than yours :lol:

Take care ya ahla Wael bil dinah :)

The Word Bible isn't mentioned in the Bible. You just like to argue....You're not interested in any meaningful dialog. It's unfortunatly that the appologetic muslims who write some of the post on this forum cant see that you're mischievious, and that islam forum allows you to be expose. some christians intentions are to just create incidents. seeking confussion, but there are others who may truly want to know about islam. all that peaceful talk your not Devout in your faith I read some of your post and I've heard others from your faith... They would clasify you as "a radical Missonary who cant leave the muslims alone cause they cant convert as fast as they talk"... and thats what a Pastor had to say about you when I let him read your post. :o

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