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In the Name of God - Creator Redeemer Sanctifier.
Peace be with you!
I'd just like to reiterate what I've said all along...
Islamic women in hijab are truly admirable.
I think it's fair to say that wearing a hijab makes you a good <i>Muslim</i>... but not necessarily a good <i>person</i>.
Virtue is manifested through deeds not attire.
I feel that Islamic women should be able to cover up whenever & wherever they like (no bans) & non-Islamic women should be respected whether they're in short skirts, jeans or bikinis. At the end of the day we're all dignified human beings & clothes don't define who we are as persons.
May God bless all the women in the world (& the men too).
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
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Bismillah
"I think it's fair to say that wearing a hijab makes you a good Muslim... but not necessarily a good person."
Ert?
Muslim means one who submits to the Will of Allah. If they wear a head scarf but wear minis and what not (it happens in the US so no pic needed... ty though), are they really submitting to the Will of Allah? No. Not submitting to the Will of Allah? Not a good muslim.
On a christian note...
Person received communion and attends mass regularly but sleeps around and talks bad about people.
According to the standard that was applied to muslims, they are good christians but not good people. I do not think you would agree with this, correct?
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In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God, now & forever. Amen.
Assalmu alykum!
Quote:Muslim means one who submits to the Will of Allah. If they wear a head scarf but wear minis and what not (it happens in the US so no pic needed... ty though), are they really submitting to the Will of Allah? No. Not submitting to the Will of Allah? Not a good muslim.
I won't argue with you because I'm in no position to judge who is a good Muslim & who isn't. But I wonder if those girls know they're a walking contradiction :confused_smile: Why would they compromise the Islamic dress code, i.e. hijab - yes, loose clothing - no??? Does their effort count? Would you treat them differently from "good" Muslims?
Quote:On a christian note...
Person received communion and attends mass regularly but sleeps around and talks bad about people.
According to the standard that was applied to muslims, they are good christians but not good people. I do not think you would agree with this, correct?
You & Wael are obsessed with Christian analogies :lol:
I originally typed out a 500 word theological analyses but decided to delete it & give you the short version instead :)
Theoretically, & I'm a complete failure at this, we're not supposed to judge anybody on a subjective level, i.e. you're an evil person. We can only be objective, i.e. speaking ill of others is wrong.
Everybody, saints & sinners alike, are encouraged to attend Mass but only those in a state of grace should approach the altar to receive Holy Communion. This prevents sacrilege. Others may ask for a blessing or alternatively (& preferably) go to Confession before Mass, showing true contrition.
Love the sinner, hate the sin :)
God bless.
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Bismillah
"Does their effort count? Would you treat them differently from "good" Muslims?"
Effort count... Only Allah Knows the intension in the heart... Treat them differently? Yes in a small way bc I would not have to remind a sister who covers properly that she needs to cover. I don't view them as evil if that is what you are asking... just misguided, in need of help.
"You & Wael are obsessed with Christian analogies
I originally typed out a 500 word theological analyses but decided to delete it & give you the short version instead
Theoretically, & I'm a complete failure at this, we're not supposed to judge anybody on a subjective level, i.e. you're an evil person. We can only be objective, i.e. speaking ill of others is wrong.
Everybody, saints & sinners alike, are encouraged to attend Mass but only those in a state of grace should approach the altar to receive Holy Communion. This prevents sacrilege. Others may ask for a blessing or alternatively (& preferably) go to Confession before Mass, showing true contrition.
Love the sinner, hate the sin
God bless."
Of course you HAVE to find a way to somehow disagree... when I really do not see what there is to disagree about.
Yes, I will use christian analogies bc it seems that many times christians forget that muslims are people, so I draw parallels in the hopes of driving that home.
Now disagree with this...
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Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all!
Salam Dan,
Sorry but did I just hear you say that it seems many times Christians forget Muslims are people???
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03-23-2007, 05:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2007, 12:14 PM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah:Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.
I'm just hoping that Muslims don't judge non-Islamic women based on their appearance & consequently label them as immoral & immodest. For me, virtue comes from within.
<b>God is the Judge FHC</b>… now we know very well what the Qur’an says about Hijab, and in addition to that, the Bible tells us that <b>women who are praying with an uncovered head is a disgrace</b>. These are not my words FHC, it is suppose to be God's words, so it is God who judged those women and not Muslims.
Quote:But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, <b>and the head of Christ is God
</b>. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. <b>But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head</b>, for it is the same as if she were shaven. <b>For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven</b>. <b>But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head</b>. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels. <b>ICorinthians 11:3-10</b>
Now before you think how to interpret this verse differently, please have a look at this image:
Isn’t Mary supposed to be your “<i>mother of God</i>”? Why don’t you imitate her? Of course she was not wearing her Hijab for showing off, <b>but for you to learn the proper way of dressing and to follow her example.</b>
Do you know that until the 1960s ( especially in the Philippiens), it was obligatory for Catholic women to cover their heads in church?
Anyway, before you say some of your famous statements (i.e"<i>Wael is teaching me Christianity</i>"), please have a look at the following webpages where you will find that Christians themselves are calling women to cover their heads <b>in accordance with the commandment of the Bible</b>.
Head covering- According to the scriptures.
HEADCOVERINGS AND THE CHRISTIAN WOMAN
She Maketh Herself Headcoverings
Should Christian Women Wear a Covering
The Biblical Practice of Headcovering
The Christian Veiling
The Headcoverings of sisters
THE RITES OF SUBMISSION
The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling
Salam
Wael.
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03-23-2007, 07:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2007, 12:15 PM by Muslimah.)
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.
Assalamu alykum, Wael!
Quote:<b>God is the Judge FHC</b>… now we know very well what the Qur’an says about Hijab, and in addition to that, the Bible tells us that <b>women who are praying with an uncovered head is a disgrace</b>. These are not my words FHC, it is suppose to be God's words, so it is God who judged those women and not Muslims.
Now before you think how to interpret this verse differently, please have a look at this image:
Isn’t Mary supposed to be your “<i>mother of God</i>”? Why don’t you imitate her? Of course she was not wearing her Hijab for showing off, <b>but for you to learn the proper way of dressing and to follow her example.</b>
Do you know that until the 1960s (especially in the Philippiens), it was obligatory for Catholic women to cover their heads in church?
Anyway, before you say some of your famous statements (i.e"<i>Wael is teaching me Christianity</i>"), please have a look at the following webpages where you will find that Christians themselves are calling women to cover their heads <b>in accordance with the commandment of the Bible</b>.
Hehe! You never give up, man!
I breifly touched on this issue on these 2 threads:
http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4204 (post #7).
http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3393&st=20 (post #28).
It's mega important that you don't confuse veiling in Catholicism with hijab in Islam. They're world's apart. Even when Our Lady was praying alone or at home in the company of her spouse, St Joseph, she probably would've remained covered... "That which is veiled is that which is holy" - it's linked to Moses covering his head after encountering YHWH on Mt Sinai. There's a different purpose for veils in Christianity.
If you require further clarification, please let me know :)
God bless.
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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
I don’t think you have read the links I provided. did you? :conf06:
Salam
Wael.
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03-23-2007, 12:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2007, 12:56 PM by Faith Hope Charity.)
To the Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Peace be with you!
Quote:I don’t think you have read the links I provided. did you? :conf06:
No, I did not! Do you want to know why? Mainly because I do not belong to the following traditions...
<b>Baptist -</b> Head covering- According to the scriptures.
<b>Presbyterian -</b> HEADCOVERINGS AND THE CHRISTIAN WOMAN
<b>SMHC Ministry</b> - She Maketh Herself Headcoverings
<b>Local Assembly -</b> Should Christian Women Wear a Covering
<b>Evangelical -</b> The Biblical Practice of Headcovering
<b>Menonite - </b> The Christian Veiling
<b>Christadelphian - </b> The Headcoverings of sisters
<b>Independent Fundamental Church of America -</b> THE RITES OF SUBMISSION
<b>Anabaptist -</b> The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling
Allow me to introduce myself, Wael... my name is <i>Faith Hope Charity</i>, I am a disciple of <i>Jesus Christ</i>, I was baptised in the Name of the <i>Most Holy Trinity</i>, my spiritual mother on earth is the <i>One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church</i>, & my spiritual father on earth is <i>Pope Benedict XVI</i>. If you would like to discuss a matter that concerns my family, then I am all ears. Unfortunately, I am not qualified nor do I have any desire to examine Protestant beliefs on an Islamic forum.
I hope you can live with that!
God bless.
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Bismillah:Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:Allow me to introduce myself, Wael... my name is <i>Faith Hope Charity</i>, I am a disciple of <i>Jesus Christ</i>, I was baptised in the Name of the <i>Most Holy Trinity</i>, my spiritual mother on earth is the <i>One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church</i>, & my spiritual father on earth is <i>Pope Benedict XVI</i>. If you would like to discuss a matter that concerns my family, then I am all ears. Unfortunately, I am not qualified nor do I have any desire to examine Protestant beliefs on an Islamic forum.
I hope you can live with that!
God bless.
Got it... I was thinking that you might give us some refutations to their claims, since they consider themselves to be <i>the disciples of Jesus Christ</i>, they were also <i>baptized in the name of the father, son and holy ghost</i>, and they are following higher authority called <i>the church of Christ</i>, and so I can see no difference between your claims and theirs. Anyway, I got your point and it is well respected. :)
Salam
Wael.
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