WHY MOTHER TERESA SHOULD NOT BE A SAINT

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam FHC


Well being shocked to read what i posted, implies that u assumed and judged my intention.


Well, I will leave it here.


I echo what Radiyah and jennifer said, no can judge whose prayer is answered except Allah.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory be to God - Father Son Holy Spirit - now & forever. Amen!


Beatified Mother Teresa of Calcutta, please pray for us.


May the peace of Christ be with you all!

I wish you will think and seriously reflect on what you have said, not for anybody's sake but for your own.

SisterJennifer, my belief in the Communion of Saints is strong & permanent. Thanks for your concern, but I'm adamant in my convictions.

Nobody knows who is better or worse than another, living or dead, besides our creator. Only Allah knows who are the rightoeus among his servants. We cannot logically give elevated status to any individual based on something only our creator knows. We have to leave the hearts and souls to Allah to judge, this is not our right.

I totally agree with everything you've said in the above quote :) No one's playing the role of God. The Saints don't need us to do anything for them. Their Sainthood is a gift given to us from God Almighty. All they can grant us is their prayers. God performs the miracles. But enough about Catholicism...


Please allow me to take this opportunity to learn about Islam :confused_smile: I need your help, ladies...

Therefore, it is not going to benefit any person to invoke the dead to pray on ones behalf. The dead are in their graves waiting their judgement, but thanks to God you are still alive, and if you call on God, he will listen.

The dead are in their graves? Do you believe souls are immortal? Is Mohammad (PBUH) too lying in a grave waiting for Judgement Day? Where's the "Prophet Isa" according to Islam? I'm aware Muslims believe He didn't die.


My deepest gratitude to you, Sister! May Allah bless & welcome you with open arms in Heaven.

salam FHC


Well being shocked to read what i posted, implies that u assumed and judged my intention.


Well, I will leave it here.


I echo what Radiyah and jennifer said, no can judge whose prayer is answered except Allah.

Salam Muslimah,


Your intentions were made perfectly clear in Post 3.


I also echo what was said :)


<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>

[SisterJennifer]

Hi FHC,


Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems to me that you dont take any time to reflect on the dialogue that you engage in, but rather you just make fast replies in a reactionary way perferring to chase your own opinions weather they have any religious or logical basis or not. I have watched you time and time again on this board judge who is a "saint" and who is a "terrorist" and who is good and who is evil. If thats not playing God and judging others I dont know what is.


You say "The sainthood is a gift given to us from God Almighty" Well, I never saw God sending down a decree from the heavens telling the human race Mother Teresa or anybody else is to be given an elevated status, but in FACT the whole concept of sainthood is something manmade and not divine. And I know you are smart, so I am certain that if you give yourself time to think deeply about the enitre concept insha Allah you will underatnd how this undermines the first commandment.


I am not asking for a lecture on Catholisim (I was raised Catholic) I am only speaking out of concern for you, I wish you can understand me. I hope I dont sound confrontational, but I really wish to ask you to think more before making any quick reply.


May Allah forgive us and guide us all to the right path, ameen


Love, Jennifer

[Faith Hope Charity]

Lord have mercy.


Salam SisterJennifer!


Please check your Private Messages.


If we're going to get personal, I'd rather keep it between us.


Thanks Matey!


:)

[Dan]

Bismillah


How is praying to saints (something other than the Creator) not polytheism? Go to the Vatican and you can see all the idols that people pray to. The foot of the statue of Peter has to be replaced because people touch it so much. What benefit are they getting from this? Did Jesus say to do this act, let alone the Almighty Supreme? No way! Why is this man... statue of a man being venerated? This is one of the examples of how men following their own caprice leads them to deviant acts that they believe are benefitting them.


Reflecting on what worship is and what "God," or one who is worthy of worship is eliminates this confusion and straying.


Why pray to anyone else when Allah Suhanna wa t'ala is always Hearing? If I cannot communicate with my spouse and ask my friend to talk to her for me about our relationship, she would be FUMING. To me, this just shows weakness in the relationship.

[Faith Hope Charity]

To the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit. Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth & good will to all!


Hi Dan :wavey:


It's funny... In light of recent events, I feel as though my posts should include a disclaimer :confused_smile:


I'm more than happy to discuss Catholic beliefs & practises on these boards but I hope nobody accuses me of transgression down the track.


Please understand that I'm not perfect. If I unintentionally say something that offends anyone, I humbly pray for forgiveness. My aim is not to attack Muslims whilst expressing my faith.

How is praying to saints (something other than the Creator) not polytheism? Go to the Vatican and you can see all the idols that people pray to. The foot of the statue of Peter has to be replaced because people touch it so much. What benefit are they getting from this? Did Jesus say to do this act, let alone the Almighty Supreme? No way! Why is this man... statue of a man being venerated? This is one of the examples of how men following their own caprice leads them to deviant acts that they believe are benefitting them.

Here are some biblical references:


St Matthew 27:47-49


St John 2:1-10


Acts 8:24


Romans 15:30


1 St Timothy 2:1-3


Hebrews 13:18


St James 5:16


Revelations 5:8; 8:3-4


Genesis 18:16-32


Exodus 32:11-14


Job 42:7-10


Zechariah 1:12


2 Maccabees 15:12-16


Christians believe that God's people are one family. The saints in heaven are my brothers & sisters. In prayer, I converse with them.


"The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, 'the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.' Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is" (CCC 2132).


Just like my dad, I'm sure you have pictures of your children in your wallet & look at them contemplatively & perhaps even kiss them from time to time.

Reflecting on what worship is and what "God," or one who is worthy of worship is eliminates this confusion and straying.

"The Catholic Church makes a complete & clear distinction between the supreme worship that is given to God alone (adoration) & the relative & inferior homage which is paid to the saints (veneration)."

Why pray to anyone else when Allah Suhanna wa t'ala is always Hearing? If I cannot communicate with my spouse and ask my friend to talk to her for me about our relationship, she would be FUMING. To me, this just shows weakness in the relationship.

Okay, when you were a child & wanted something from your dad but feared he'd say no because you were misbehaving, wouldn't you beg your mom to help plead on your behalf? I sure did! It's not the best example but I'm sure you can make the connection.


The invocation of saints is optional for Catholics. I love them because they love God. I ask them to pray for me so that I can follow their example.


Okay! So I'm really interested in learning more about Islam. I'm a very spiritual person. If it's not too much trouble, could someone please answer the questions I asked in post 12? WAEL WAYNAK??? :P


Thanks for everything!


God bless you & yours.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

"The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, 'the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.' Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is" (CCC 2132).

But the commandment clearly states that you should NOT bow down to any images!!!

Just like my dad, I'm sure you have pictures of your children in your wallet & look at them contemplatively & perhaps even kiss them from time to time.

Oh this is strictly forbidden in Islam. am i right Muslimah??

Okay, when you were a child & wanted something from your dad but feared he'd say no because you were misbehaving, wouldn't you beg your mom to help plead on your behalf? I sure did! It's not the best example but I'm sure you can make the connection.

<b>are you praying to the spirit of someone who was declared as saint after his death by the Pope/Church? </b>


What if the pope himself was wrong in his judgment and this so called saint was not really that good person and do not deserve such title?


i tihnk you believe that the pope is also a human being and can easily commit mistakes?

I love them because they love God.

How do you know? Maybe their good deeds were nothing but showing off… Who knows?


Salam


Wael

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.

But the commandment clearly states that you should NOT bow down to any images!!!

Buddy, we don't bow to them as gods & we don't serve them. The other day on live TV, I saw a pious Muslim bow down before his mother & kiss her feet. I didn't for one second think that he was worshipping her.


Biblically... the Israelites were punished for adoring the Golden Calf, however, the veneration shown towards the Arc of the Covenant was legitimate. You need to distinguish between the acts.


Catholics worship God alone.

Oh this is strictly forbidden in Islam. am i right Muslimah??

If you're right, I apologize. I didn't know. The point I was trying to make is that the person's portrayed in the photo but the person isn't the photo.


Out of curiosity, is that also the case with the Qur'an? I heard that nothing's allowed to be placed on top of a Qur'an. True? If so, what's the reason behind it?


Also, you (Wael) & I spoke briefly about Islamic prayer ritual... but I'm still a little confused :conf06: Why's it necessary for Muslims to face Mecca? What's there? Could a Muslim perform salat facing another direction since Allah is transcendent?

What if the pope himself was wrong in his judgment and this so called saint was not really that good person and do not deserve such title?


i tihnk you believe that the pope is also a human being and can easily commit mistakes?

As far as I'm aware, no saint has ever been "de-canonized" (I think I just invented that word) in the history of the Church :lol: Pope's don't judge anyone's life. They're not the ones responsible for making saints. All they do is declare the fact universally.


Yep! The pope's as human as the next person & he's not immune from sin (however he's protected from error by the guidance of the Holy Spirit when proclaiming an infallible teaching in respect to faith & morals).


If you like, I can send you in-depth information regarding the 1st Commandment & the process of canonization (very detailed doctrine).


I hope I've been helpful.


Peace to you & your families.

[Dan]

Bismillah


"the process of canonization"


Back to the topic I guess. I have heard, from noncatholic sources <_< , that Mother Teresa's cannonization is being pushed through without some of the requirements being COMPLETELY fulfilled. Is that true and why if so?

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory be to the Father & to the Son & to the Holy Spirit. Amen.

"the process of canonization"


Back to the topic I guess. I have heard, from noncatholic sources <_< , that Mother Teresa's cannonization is being pushed through without some of the requirements being COMPLETELY fulfilled. Is that true and why if so?

Hey Mate :wavey:


I've searched high & low for information supporting your claim but I found zilch. Sorry! I don't think there's any truth to it but I'll keep snooping around ;)


Do you know who's pushing for it? If there were loop holes I'd imagine JP2 would've been the one to canonize Mother Teresa. I'm a little suspicious of your sources :P I just don't think it's possible!


Stay tuned though! I'll let you know if I hear anything :)


Peace :peace: