What is the essence of Islam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Welcom back dear brother, that is all. :)

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


FHC


Regarding this comment:


Are you absolutely certain that your explanation is accurate because if so, I'll be quoting you from now on



Matter of fact, you will be quoting Quran. The Ayah is very clear...


Look at this one, although it is already included:


And if anyone of the polytheists seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.
(Quran 9:6) This is regarding those infidels who didnt trangress or violate an agreement.


As far as you are concerned on the individual level, you are a non Muslim, that is between you and Allah. I mean your postion is a non believer. But since you are not carrying out any agression activity against muslims, you are granted security. Yes, if u live in a Muslim country, you are allowed full freedom to maintain your faith, practice your faith, no obligation to revert.

[Rock]

Bismillah


Hi FHC


Can I ask you a private question?Can you speak arabic?

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


Peace be with you, Muslimah!

Well, dear, as for your question, of course Muslims are not entitled to go around killing non muslims for no obvious reasons.

If you ask me, they shouldn't go around killing them, period! :)

O ya Allah, I forgot to end up my post with Allahu A`lam = Allah Knows best.

Hehe! We forgive you, Muslimah :D Allahu A 'lam. Amen!

Although this may sound off topic, but for instance, when events like the guy who bombed himself in Cairo last year, specifically in a touristic site in Fatimide Cairo, TV interviewed a renowned Muslim scholar, namely, Dr. Zaghloul Naggar. They asked how can we avoid such events? he simply replied teach Islam, allow proper knowledge. By this the first beneficiary is the non muslim living or visiting a muslim country. FHC, by having a visa granted on your passport to enter Egypt or any other muslim country, you are entitled automatically to a convenant of security.


Thus, when we foster proper Islamic knowledge, rather than suppress it, because of political interferences, the most beneficiary catergory is the non muslim.

I hope the Brotherhood watched the interview :thumb:

Matter of fact, you will be quoting Quran. The Ayah is very clear...

Okay thanks! For the time being, I'm willing to ignore the surah's that precede & follow from it (5 & 7 as well as 123).


If only all Muslims thought like you, Muslimah.

As far as you are concerned on the individual level, you are a non Muslim, that is between you and Allah. I mean your postion is a non believer. But since you are not carrying out any agression activity against muslims, you are granted security. Yes, if u live in a Muslim country, you are allowed full freedom to maintain your faith, practice your faith, no obligation to revert.

Fantastic! So as I understand it, as a faithful Christian, who doesn't submit to Quranic law, I'm not an enemy of Allah who must chose between death, heavy taxation or slavery? Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to suffer these injustices for the sake of Jesus Christ, but I won't accept anyone telling me that this is what Allah wishes.

I also found this link to be very useful concerning apostasy <i>(your favorite subject)</i> :) , hope this will answer your questions and clear the doubts insh a Allah.


"What happens to the one who leaves (apostates) Islam?"


Salam all.


Wael

Salam Wael :peace:


Shukran for the link :) I won't mention another word about apostasy until I've read it - LOL!

Now as for apostacy:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3425


Long but u will learn much.


In brief, apostacy punishment is equal to this applied in most of the countries in espionage crimes.


This a system of life dear.


Insh aAllah u will start learing about true Islam rather than just receive the distorted stereotyped image the west is eager to portray for many reasons non of which is to save the world. If u know what I mean...... :)

Thanks for the link, Muslimah :) I'm grateful for your time & effort. I will read it & respond soon, Insh a Allah. Would you prefer me to post my reply here or there?

Hi FHC

Assalamu alaykum, Rock!

Can I ask you a private question?

Certainly!

Can you speak arabic?

I sure can! I'm a very proud Lebanese blooded Maronite Catholic. Alhamdulilah wa shukulillah! I'm extremely fond of Lebanon's Prime Minister, Fouard Siniora - a Sunni Muslim :) Barakallah fi!


God bless you all.

[Faith Hope Charity]

I also found this link to be very useful concerning apostasy <i>(your favorite subject)</i> :) , hope this will answer your questions and clear the doubts insh a Allah.


"What happens to the one who leaves (apostates) Islam?"


Salam all.


Wael

Glory be to the Father & to the Son & to the Holy Spirit, One God, forever & ever. Amen.


Peace be with you, Wael.


Mate, I consider you to be one of my closest friends on IslamMessage since I've had more interaction with you than anyone else.


Thank you for sending me the link :) I finally got around to reading it, & as a friend, I'm going to be honest & say in the nicest way possible that I didn't find it helpful at all. I'm not trying to put you down. I believe your intentions were pure.


But just hear me out, please...


The document begins with an opinion by a man who admits: <i>"First, I do not consider myself as a qualified scholar according to the regulations in Islam. Second, because I do not really know anything about the truth and evidences of this particular case."</i>


Then another man gives a brief testimony on his arrival to Islam as well as addressing a question in regards to a particular case of apostasy in Afghanistan.


Followed by 14 paragraphs of Islamic terms & definitions.


He then gives certain examples of apostates who supposedly lived during the time of the prophet (PBUH), however, he forgets to mention which authoritative books these stories are taken from. Furthermore, he doesn't include Suras/Ayats from the Qur'an, so I'm assuming he's presenting us with his personal view on the matter.


He concludes by comparing his selected examples to "the treatment of conversion and apostasy with other civilizations and societies over the centuries."


Furthermore, there's a section down the bottom which takes up more than half the webpage containing verses from the Bible that have got absolutely nothing to do with the topic - LOL!


Overall, it was an interesting read, but you could've just cut & paste these statements:


<i>"Finally, judges and scholars over the centuries have held different opinions and given various rulings based on all of the above. No one can make a blanket statement and say the same rule applies to all people in all situations.</i>


If a person wants to accept this belief and way of life, then they should be free to do so. If another person would reject this even though the evidence is clearly in favor of Islam, they are free to make this choice but would live in the society still receiving the benefits and services available, such as food, shelter, clothing, protection and charity. However, they would pay a larger tax on their wealth due to their not being conscripted to serve in the military and so on.


Conditions are really what bring about the different rulings on dealing with those who enter Islam and then leave it, with the clear intention of bringing about descention and unrest amongst the people. Also, those who seek to convert people away from Islam into other faiths or to destroy the Islamic government would naturally be considered as traitors and then dealt with as such."


I'm sorry if I'm being too brutal. Believe me, I totally appreciate your help but I don't think we're on the same page.


Insh a Allah I'll benefit from Muslimah's link. I really want to get to the bottom of apostasy in Islam & stop having nightmares about it :(


You're the best, Wael!


Take care & God bless you & your family.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Mate, I consider you to be one of my closest friends on IslamMessage since I've had more interaction with you than anyone else.

Thanks for your nice words, and to be honest with you, you are the best Christian ever ( <b>not joking, i have my reasons and i shall tell you later insh a Allah...)</b>

Thank you for sending me the link :) I finally got around to reading it, & as a friend, I'm going to be honest & say in the nicest way possible that I didn't find it helpful at all. I'm not trying to put you down. I believe your intentions were pure.

Don’t worry, I don’t give up easily :) but I find that you are so picky this time :P

But just hear me out, please...
The document begins with an opinion by a man who admits: <i>"First, I do not consider myself as a qualified scholar according to the regulations in Islam. Second, because I do not really know anything about the truth and evidences of this particular case."</i>

He was so honest to mention that, even me, sister Muslimah and all Muslims members on this board are not qualified scholars or in a position of giving Islamic Fatwa on any issue, we are only striving in Allah’s cause to clarify some of the misconceptions that non Muslims have about Islam according to our very limited knowledge, and that's why at the end of this link, Yusuf Estes adds the words, <b>and Allah knows best</b>...

He then gives certain examples of apostates who supposedly lived during the time of the prophet (PBUH), however, he forgets to mention which authoritative books these stories are taken from. Furthermore, he doesn't include Suras/Ayats from the Qur'an, so I'm assuming he's presenting us with his personal view on the matter.

You may simply ask him directly to provide for you those references and he will most surely get back to you insh a Allah, this is his website IslamTomorrow.com , his email address is: sheikyusuf@aol.com , Meanwhile, am going to seize the chance and do some homework insh a Allah to find out those references for your study, he is not inventing some stories to decorate Islam, lies according to Islam simply could take us to Hell.

I'm sorry if I'm being too brutal. Believe me, I totally appreciate your help but I don't think we're on the same page.

No, you are just so picky this time :P just kidding…

Insh a Allah I'll benefit from Muslimah's link. I really want to get to the bottom of apostasy in Islam & stop having nightmares about it :(

You will insh a Allah, we will keep trying to help you understand this matter and may Allah guide us all to his right path. Ameen.

You're the best, Wael!

Thanks alot, and you too are the best. :)


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam all


Wael, I agree with FHC, in such cases we better provide links to approved official scholars, Mash a Allah Yusuf Estes is being humble. Although at the beginning of his article, he wrote: "Islam does not permit taking the life of any innocent person, ever. Changing one's mind about what to believe about Allah, does not by itself, incur any form of physical punishment according to Islamic Law." - Yusuf Estes


Which actually explains much.


FHC, the link I gave u includes an official fatwa (legal opinon by Yusuf Qaradawi who is a renowned scholar) on this particular issue. and I do agree with Wael, we are not in a position of being formal scholars.


As for your comment regarding the three choices u mentioned.


Well, those choices are giving during war. I mean, no one is entitled to come to u, or even to Nasara living here in Egypt now and I stree now (we are not applying sharia u know) and ask for this.


If u examine history, Muslims never did this, and I think I did post quite a few times a respons prepared by a Jew to Bendict's infamous speach.


Anyway, I think when u read those links if u have any comments, pls post them under that link to keep the theme of the threads.


If u want to read more about Jihad and Qital:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=2113&st=0

[Faith Hope Charity]

Salam Wael,


Thank you for your kind words. I'm not sure I deserve such praise, but nevertheless, I'm completey humbled by what you said. It means a lot coming from you.


Sorry for being so picky :lol: I won't settle for anything but the best.


Salam Muslimah,


Thanks for the link! You're providing me with too much homework, gal :wacko: But I'm grateful as it's totally worth it.


Cheers :thumb:

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


BTW when we say system of life, we mean full system of a State including economic, financial, social, military, ..etc. This is how a State must be ruled in Islam. Again in Islam. If u cannt accept it, we fully understand.


The Jizia issue is dealt with on other threads. Btw it falls under the same reason. Like when Nasara called for Muslim help due to the Catholic oppression they experienced, they knew that they will be offered this option of paying a tax in return for their protection in cases of foreign invasion. They were not requested to participate in war. Logical enough, in case a foreign invasion would take place, and the invador is a Nasarani state, I think an Egyptian Nasrani wouldnt like to raise a sowrd in their face. Thus, to enjoy the protection of the Muslim army while not participating in any war fare, in case any occurs, they pay a tax. Just like Muslims pay Zakaat (alms in our money) to benefit the low income categories and other areas that need funding in the state as a state, by the way low income categories of non muslims benefited on this same money...I stress system of ruling.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


May the peace of Christ be with you.

The Jizia issue is dealt with on other threads. Btw it falls under the same reason. Like when Nasara called for Muslim help due to the Catholic oppression they experienced, they knew that they will be offered this option of paying a tax in return for their protection in cases of foreign invasion. They were not requested to participate in war. Logical enough, in case a foreign invasion would take place, and the invador is a Nasarani state, I think an Egyptian Nasrani wouldnt like to raise a sowrd in their face. Thus, to enjoy the protection of the Muslim army while not participating in any war fare, in case any occurs, they pay a tax. Just like Muslims pay Zakaat (alms in our money) to benefit the low income categories and other areas that need funding in the state as a state, by the way low income categories of non muslims benefited on this same money...I stress system of ruling.

Thanks Muslimah!


What you said makes perfect sense, however, there's more to it than that.


You see, I don't mind if a Muslim state imposes jizia on me (does this include extra property tax?), but that's where I'd draw the line. <i>"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" (St Luke 20:25).</i> Certain Islamic countries take it a mile further by adding further restrictions on Dhimmis, e.g. forbidden to proclaim/practise/preach openly, displaying religious items in public, not granted permission to build Churches, dismissing their testimonies in court, forced to wear distinctive clothing, required to step off a sidewalk to allow a Muslim to pass, etc. Basically, Dhimmis are reduced to semi-servile status & are made to "feel subdued" (Sura 9:29). Which I guess at the end of the day is better than death, but when you really think about it, it's a lose/lose situation.


It appears that protection comes at a high cost!


Am I whinging too much? LOL!


You know what? I just love the fact that in Australia you walk through our cities on any given day & see various different religious communities celebrating their holy days/festivals... Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Aborigines, etc. The wonderful thing about it is that no one takes offence. Muslims in this country don't seem to mind at all. Thanks be to Allah!