Quranic Miracles

[Ruggedtouch]

Nope. All the nonsense is stuff you've said and which I've quoted. I'm sorry you don't like having to justify your posts, but that's generally what "debate" entails.

With the rabid purveyors of Quaranic “science miracles” especially desperate in their feeble flailing about, I thought that I might render them more docile, massaging the 'gator's belly, if you will, by portraying images of a positive, reassuring attitude defiant of manifest reality.



I <i>do</i> hope the following provides a modicum of solace, however fleeting.


“Mountains as pegs”, “lamps in the Sky”… no wonder the Moslem world is spiraling into the abyss.


I do not doubt that there are as many dozens of arguments for “<i>Mountains as pegs</i>”, “<i>lamps in the Sky</i>”, “<i>the quran as a science text</i>” and similar flights of fancy as there are believers in such nonsense. And to each of them, these arguments (“because I say so”) are sufficient. To claim that the arguments are logical as well is to grasp beyond the reach of logic.


Logic is a man-made construct. It has rules, provability axioms, and most essential to my argument, an incompleteness proven by Godel in the 1930s: In any logical system beyond the first order, it is possible to construct “undecidable” propositions. The existence of “<i>Mountains as pegs</i>”, “<i>lamps in the Sky</i>”, “<i>quran as a science text</i>” is not supportable or rational, except in the mind of the zealot.


While I'm sure there are many interpretations which will square your notion of the Quran with science, it is, if taken literally, absurd. I do not seek spiritual enlightenment in Darwin's "<i>Origin of Species</i>." Nor do I seek observation, hypothesis and experiment in quran. You do. I'm happy for you.


May I suggest you find enlightenment in the "Flat Earth Society".

[wael's wife]

Bismillah:

With the rabid purveyors of Quaranic “science miracles” especially desperate in their feeble flailing about, I thought that I might render them more docile, massaging the 'gator's belly, if you will, by portraying images of a positive, reassuring attitude defiant of manifest reality.



I <i>do</i> hope the following provides a modicum of solace, however fleeting.


“Mountains as pegs”, “lamps in the Sky”… no wonder the Moslem world is spiraling into the abyss.


I do not doubt that there are as many dozens of arguments for “<i>Mountains as pegs</i>”, “<i>lamps in the Sky</i>”, “<i>the quran as a science text</i>” and similar flights of fancy as there are believers in such nonsense. And to each of them, these arguments (“because I say so”) are sufficient. To claim that the arguments are logical as well is to grasp beyond the reach of logic.


Logic is a man-made construct. It has rules, provability axioms, and most essential to my argument, an incompleteness proven by Godel in the 1930s: In any logical system beyond the first order, it is possible to construct “undecidable” propositions. The existence of “<i>Mountains as pegs</i>”, “<i>lamps in the Sky</i>”, “<i>quran as a science text</i>” is not supportable or rational, except in the mind of the zealot.


While I'm sure there are many interpretations which will square your notion of the Quran with science, it is, if taken literally, absurd. I do not seek spiritual enlightenment in Darwin's "<i>Origin of Species</i>." Nor do I seek observation, hypothesis and experiment in quran. You do. I'm happy for you.

what are you talking about???


The fact that mountains have deep downward extensions below the ground surface and that their main role is to stabilize the Earth as a planet, and its outer rocky cover (particularly that which constitutes continental plates) have only been discerned by specialists very recently, although scientist have pondered about the possibility of mountains having roots as early as the second half of the nineteenth century. However, the process of formation of such downward extensions as well as their role in halting the sudden, jerky movements of the planet and of its lithospheric plates have only begun to be understood in the framework of modern astronomy and the very recent concept of plate tectonics (late 1960's and early 1970's). What you are saying is very very old information and mostly taken from Anti Islamic websites who are just trying hard to prove that the Qur’an is wrong but they’ve failed miserably. Alhamdulelah.

Isostasy explains the vertical distribution of Earth's crust. George Bedell Airy proposed that the density of the crust is everywhere the same and the thickness of crustal material varies. Higher mountains are compensated by deeper roots. This explains the high elevations of most major mountain chains, such as the Himalayas. G H Pratt hypothesized that the density of the crust varies, allowing the base of the crust to be the same everywhere. Sections of crust with high mountains, therefore, would be less dense than sections of crust where there are lowlands. This applies to instances where density varies, such as the difference between continental and oceanic crust.
(Image © Research Machines plc)

May I suggest you find enlightenment in the "Flat Earth Society".

expected statement from people of ignorance.


Salam


<b>Wael</b>/ USING MY WIFE ACCOUNT BY MISTAKE. :D

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


O Wael, I was about to make a special large welcome.. thinking it was her.


Any way, salam brother.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Bismillah


O Wael, I was about to make a special large welcome.. thinking it was her.


Any way, salam brother.

Dont worry sister, she's coming soon insha'Allah :)


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah:


The fact that mountains have deep downward extensions below the ground surface and that their main role is to stabilize the Earth as a planet, and its outer rocky cover (particularly that which constitutes continental plates) have only been discerned by specialists very recently, although scientist have pondered about the possibility of mountains having roots as early as the second half of the nineteenth century.

Only for those of understanding.

[Ruggedtouch]

Bismillah:


what are you talking about???


The fact that mountains have deep downward extensions below the ground surface and that their main role is to stabilize the Earth as a planet, and its outer rocky cover (particularly that which constitutes continental plates) have only been discerned by specialists very recently, although scientist have pondered about the possibility of mountains having roots as early as the second half of the nineteenth century. However, the process of formation of such downward extensions as well as their role in halting the sudden, jerky movements of the planet and of its lithospheric plates have only begun to be understood in the framework of modern astronomy and the very recent concept of plate tectonics (late 1960's and early 1970's). What you are saying is very very old information and mostly taken from Anti Islamic websites who are just trying hard to prove that the Qur’an is wrong but they’ve failed miserably. Alhamdulelah.





expected statement from people of ignorance.


Salam


<b>Wael</b>/ USING MY WIFE ACCOUNT BY MISTAKE. :D

I probably should not have allowed you to back yourself into such a corner but I’m surprised you’ve carried on this charade of quaranic science and "mountains stabilize the earth", nonsense. While I didn’t intend to string you along, it is amusing to watch you defend the indefensible.



It would appear we’re on the horns of a dilemma here:


We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them… (Qur'an, 21:31)


… [He] cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so that it would not move under you… (Qur'an, 31:10)


We subjected the mountains to glorify [Allah] with him in the evening and at sunrise.


(Qur’an, 38:18)


He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully you would be guided.


(Qur’an, 16:15)


I’m not sure who “we” is (perhaps Allah needs help?), or more likely, an apologist will find a convenient interpretation to explain this away, but no matter. You’ve already conceded that mountains are the result of plate tectonics. That process takes place over millions of years, much more quickly of course for volcanic eruptions.


Speaking of the “Flat Earth Society”:


Cited by Carl Sagan (perhaps my favorite author) in "<i>The Demon-haunted World</i>'', Ballantine, ISBN 0-345-40946-9, p. 325:


``In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, issued a edict, or fatwah, <b>declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished</b>.''


"<b>The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.</b>" Yousef M. Ibrahim, "<i>Muslim Edicts take on New Force</i>", The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.


Hooray for the 7th century, eh?

[Deen]

Bismillah,


With all due respect, the "miracles" highlighted on this thread are not miracles as these are creation of Allah and the creation of Allah is not a miracle. A miracle is a supernatural event which defies the laws of the universe and comes with a challenge. Miracles only happen by the will of Allah SWT to messengers & prophets.


For example, Musa (as) staff eating the snakes of the magicians was a miracle.


Isa (as) bringing people back from the dead was a miracle


Yusuf (as) interpreting dreams


Rasool (saw) moon in half


Quran being a miracle itself

[Ruggedtouch]

Bismillah,


With all due respect, the "miracles" highlighted on this thread are not miracles as these are creation of Allah and the creation of Allah is not a miracle. A miracle is a supernatural event which defies the laws of the universe and comes with a challenge. Miracles only happen by the will of Allah SWT to messengers & prophets.


For example, Musa (as) staff eating the snakes of the magicians was a miracle.


Isa (as) bringing people back from the dead was a miracle


Yusuf (as) interpreting dreams


Rasool (saw) moon in half


Quran being a miracle itself

I'd be pleased to see any verifiable data you can present to support those claims.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

I probably should not have allowed you to back yourself into such a corner but I’m surprised you’ve carried on this charade of quaranic science and "mountains stabilize the earth", nonsense. While I didn’t intend to string you along, it is amusing to watch you defend the indefensible.

Blah blah blah... Ok next. <_<

It would appear we’re on the horns of a dilemma here:

We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them… (Qur'an, 21:31)



… [He] cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so that it would not move under you… (Qur'an, 31:10)



We subjected the mountains to glorify [Allah] with him in the evening and at sunrise.



(Qur’an, 38:18)



He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully you would be guided.



(Qur’an, 16:15)

So what you are trying to emphasize by quoting those verses? huh ?

I’m not sure who “we” is (perhaps Allah needs help?),

Yes you are not sure because simply you don’t know. So just ask
<b>without making some kind of useless and hopeless comments.
</b>


In several languages, there are
<b>two types of plurals
</b>; one is a plural of numbers to refer to something that occurs in a quantity of more than one. The other plural is a
<b> plural of respect.
</b>


So, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word
<b>'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’.
</b> It does not indicate plural of number
<b>but plural of respect.
</b>



Tawheed or monotheism is one of the pillars of Islam. The existence and uniqueness of one and only one God is mentioned several times in the Qur’an. For instance in chapter 112 it says:




<b>"Say He is Allah the One and Only."

</b>[Al-Qur’an 112: 1]



Hey,
<b>you better watch your mouth when talking about Allah whom we believe to be God Almighty

</b>. Otherwise you are not welcome here and banning you will be the best solution. So if you desire to stay here, then please show some respect when debating. There is no need to use provocative words if you are seeking a healthy discussion.




<b>SISTER MUSLIMAH: am sorry to warn him while am not in such position, but please consider my warning to be the first for Ruggedtouch. Thanks.
</b>

Speaking of the “Flat Earth Society”:

Cited by Carl Sagan (perhaps my favorite author) in "
<i>The Demon-haunted World
</i>'', Ballantine, ISBN 0-345-40946-9, p. 325:



``In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, issued a edict, or fatwah,
<b>declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished
</b>.''



"
<b>The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.
</b>" Yousef M. Ibrahim, "
<i>Muslim Edicts take on New Force
</i>", The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.

Who is Abdel Aziz Ibn Baaz ANYWAY, is he God Almighty???
<b>There is not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat.

</b>
So the above statement of Mr Baaz carries no weight since the Holy Qur’an perfectly mentioned the actual shape of the earth which is egg shape or geospherical.



Salam



Wael

[Khairan]

So, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word <b>'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’.</b> It does not indicate plural of number <b>but plural of respect. </b>

In English, this is also known as "the royal 'We'." :)
And now I know what "nahnu" means. Thanks! :D