Login

MichelleSeeking · 07-05-2003, 08:32 AM

I hope and pray that you will not be offended by my questions. I am a Catholic and I am trying to learn about Islam and this seems like the best place!

I'll give you a (hopefully short) history about my interest in Islam. That way you will know where I am today!

I have always believed in God but I never had an "organized" religious life because my parents are all athiests and wouldn't let me attend church or read the Bible freely. Islam wasn't even known by me back then. All I knew of were Baptists and Catholics.

For some reason I have always had a great desire to remain pure and chaste until I marry. I didn't indulge in drugs, drinking, or parties. Folks thought I was a prude and my family thought I was odd. I figured it all had something to do with God so I stuck to my guns. When I was 17 I joined the Navy where I became a helicopter mechanic and found myself stationed in Sicily. We would deploy to Bahrain where we lived in a nice apartment building in Manama and worked behind the Gulf Air airport for two-month rotations. I deployed there several times and fell very much in love with the Middle East. I visited Saudi Arabia. Egypt, and spent a few days in the UAE as well. How I love the Middle East! The people, the food, the music, the culture, the incredible beauty of the desert. Most people just see sand but ... I see so much more for some reason. I'm so glad I had the chance to visit these places.

Because Muslims are very obvious about their faith and they share their beliefs openly I was first exposed to an organized sense of God through Islam. Yet I was young and shy and I only met Bahrani men via taxis or stores. I didn't feel proper engaging in deep conversations with them since I was not married and I was usually alone. Like I said, I had the desire to be proper even though I had no idea where this desire came from. I wasn't even sure about "the rules" so I followed my gut instincts.

So I lived among Muslims but I wasn't able to ask very many questions.

I remember my second deployment to Bahrain very well because I was really tuning into the religion that surrounded me. I tried reading the Koran but I was left feeling confused simply because religious books aren't easy to grasp. I saw the women in their head-to-toe black and instead of thinking they were oppressed I considered them to be rather liberated! That didn't go over well with my friends but to be honest, I'd watch my friends dressing immodestly and going to night clubs where they were treated like sexual objects and disrespected. I wondered if hijab protected a woman and kept her dignity intact because she wasn't on display. Now I'm quite convinced of this and I wish we Catholics could veil!

Anyway, on my second deployment I decided to try and pray like a Muslim. The days and nights were puncutated by loud prayers sung (chanted?) over loudspeakers from the Mosques. I loved hearing them. I went out onto the porch during a night prayer and I was bowing and kneeling and clumsily copying the people I had seen praying in public during the day times. I wasn't sure what I was supposed to say so I kept saying, "God I love you! God you are great! Uh...God, I hope I'm doing this right!" One of my roomates whipped the sliding glass door open and shouted at me, "Michelle what the HECK are you DOING???" I never tried to pray again because I worried that I would get in trouble or be thought of as a terrorist. After all, the Gulf War was just ending and wasn't I an American servicewoman in the Gulf to fight "bad guys"? How would it look if I was acting like a Muslim? Yikes!

But that night something made a really deep impact on me and I realized that God was calling for me to seek Him and follow Him and quit wandering around alone. It's one thing to believe in God. It's another thing to act on that belief. So after I returned to America I started to investigate Christianity. I sorted through the imense number of denominations and finally settled on the Catholic faith because I could trace it historically back to the times of Christ and the Catholic Church's dogmas hadn't been changed over time. The other denominations were always bickering and pointing fingers saying, "WE have the truth and NO ONE ELSE does so if you don't accept our beliefs you will burn in hell!" This was really scary for me. The Catholic Church didn't seem to be so antagonistic and I felt safer during Mass when the Priest spoke about God and how to live for God but didn't rain fire and brimstone down on our heads. But I still wonder if the Bible is right.

Anyway, I like being Catholic because I have a wonderful and organized religion that helps me to try and live a good life for God. I love to worship and attend Mass. I pray the Rosary and honor the Blessed Virgin Mary. Just about everything makes sense but some things throw me off: like saying certain Novena prayers on certain days under certain stipulations. It almost feels like I'm casting a majic spell. There are some teachings that I don't agree with either and I am told that I must because the Church has historically always taught such things and the Bible says certain things about the topic. So then I feel horrible like I'm going to go to hell for breaking rules I don't understand.

Sometimes I'm perfectly content to be Catholic and other times I feel like a square peg in a round hole. Maybe this is because I spent 23 years of my life outside of any faith and I've only belonged to a faith for 5 short years? Who wouldn't feel odd? I try not to think about it too hard because I feel that my soul is at risk.

Whenever I doubt the Catholic faith I feel very guilty and I worry that maybe I'll go to hell. That's why investigating Islam is very scary! I think, "Am I wrong for reading the Qu'ran and having Islamic wall hangings in my room???" I'm not saying that I want to convert - but I do want to learn.

When I ask about Islam I run into the same situations I encountered when I was investigating Christianity: I am told with conviction that Islam is the true faith, then I am given a few quotes from the Qu'ran. Though I appreciate the answers I am left feeling unfulfilled. The questions that I have always wondered about are so rude sounding and I have to beg for your understanding and forgiveness if I offend. I take the risk I guess. Here they are:

How does one know for a fact that Islam is truly of God, that it is real? How can you be sure that the Prophet Muhammed wasn't influenced by the Christians and Jews around him and he didn't "put together" his own faith by bowrrowing heavily from these existing faiths and holy writings?

I don't want to debate Christianity vs. Islam. I'm honestly asking this thing from my heart. I honor the Prophet yet at the same time I wonder about wheather or not he "invented" Islam. (I cringe as I write this for fear that I sound mean.)

Please don't be offended by my questions! I asked the same things about Christianity and I have to admit that I never really recieved a completely fulfilling answer. It seemed that in the end I had to fill in the blanks with heavy doses of faith. There are certain passages in the Bible that seem to thwart the claim that Jesus Christ is God, and other things like that. If you have insights about Christianity and the Bible that you would like to share with me then please feel free to do so - I won't be offended. I'll search for answers instead.

I am ordering a copy of the Qu'ran that a friend of mine suggested. Oddly enough, she is a Benedictine nun! Even nuns investigate Islam. The copy that I now have is really difficult to understand because each line is inturrupted with explanations in parenthasis. The book my nun-friend owns has no inturruptions and has excellent foot notes. When this translation of the Qur'an arrives I shall let you know!

Thank you very much for your time and God bless.

***Muslimah*** · 07-05-2003, 10:36 AM

Sobhan Allah Michelle

You are simply a clear example of the Quran verse saying:

[b:5f740fbc25]"So set you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) your face towards the religion (of pure Islâmic Monotheism) Hanîf (worship none but Allâh Alone). Allâh’s Fitrah (i.e. Allâh’s Islâmic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq-illâh (i.e. the religion of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism): that is the straight religion, but most of men know not.[2] [Tafsir At-Tabarî]" (Quran 30:30). [/b:5f740fbc25][/color:5f740fbc25]

Michelle we are not offended at all, how can u know without asking, without revealing what is in your mind. Well in brief, Prophet Mohamed (PAPBUH) did not invent Islam. [b:5f740fbc25][u:5f740fbc25]Simply because Islam is the only religion to Allah.[/u:5f740fbc25][/b:5f740fbc25] Allah sent all the Messengers and Prophets prayer and peace be upon all of them starting from Adam to Mohamed calling for Islam only.

As indicated in: [b:5f740fbc25]"Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya‘qûb (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilâh (God - Allâh), the Ilâh (God) of your fathers, Ibrâhîm (Abraham), Ismâ‘îl (Ishmael), Ishâq (Isaac), One Ilâh (God), and to Him we submit (in Islâm)." (Quran 2: 133) While look at this verse:" Then when ‘Îsâ (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allâh’s Cause?" Al-Hawâriyyûn (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allâh; we believe in Allâh, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allâh)." (Quran 3: 152).[/b:5f740fbc25][/color:5f740fbc25]

Actually Michelle we are all born Muslims according to the verse: [b:5f740fbc25]"And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam’s loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this."

" (Quran 7: 172)[/b:5f740fbc25][/color:5f740fbc25]

Now u may say how would I know the Quran is from Allah

I will give u some links here, read and ponder on them. Think Michelle and ask for Allah's guidance. Ask for light from Him. He shall give u the light u need to land safely on the shore soon Insh a Allah

http://www.islamsms.com/en/modules.php...=article&sid=17

http://www.islamsms.com/en/modules.php...article&sid=100

Just read these material and come back. 

Waiting for u to answer more and help u more Insh a Allah

MichelleSeeking · 07-05-2003, 04:32 PM

I am so glad I didn't offend! I thank you all for your extreme patience and kindness. I'm so happy that you do not see my questions as arguments or debates. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I have some questions about Jesus's place in Islam. I hope no one will mind more questions. Thank you for the web pages! I will look at them when I have some free time.

Here are my questions about Jesus and his teachings:

If Muslims consider Jesus to be a great Prophet of God (that's the key: of God) then Jesus's teachings must fit into Islam like a puzzle piece. I can't say that Jesus was a Prophet - and then disregard much of what he said. It's black or white: Either Muslims consider Jesus a Prophet sent by God or they don't.

How do these things fit into Islam:

Baptism. How does Baptisim fit into Islam. Jesus said, "Go unto all nations and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

Where does the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit fit into Islam?

Where does the "Last Supper" fit? (where Jesus held up bread and wine and said, "Take, eat, this is my body....this is my blood...do this in rememberance of me."

Where does Jesus's resurection fit into Islam? I am taught that Jesus was able to rise from the dead because He was God. If that's not so, then why did he rise from the dead? What does this have to do with/for Islam?

Thank you so much for your help! Thank you for the websites. Sometimes I keep asking questions because some of the explanations on the websites can be confusing or they don't address my specific questions. I hope you all don't mind!!

-Michelle

wel_mel · 07-06-2003, 05:03 AM

Dear Michelle.

First, allowed me my friend to say welcome to your forum and we are more than happy to receive your questions.

Second, there is nothing to be thankful, this is our duty so pls feel free to ask whatever you wish regarding Islam. And May Allah help us to be able to answer your questions. INshaa Allah.

Before I answer your questions I would like to share with you some verses from the Bible. And I would like you to read carefully and after you finish just let me know. Because I have a questions for you. IS THIS CAN BE THE WORD OF GOD?? IS GOD EASILY CAN MAKE ERRORS??

The verses as follows:

II Samuel 24:1 and I Chronicles 21:11 and compare…

II Chronicles 36:9 and compare with II King 24:8

II Samuel 10:18 compare with I Chronicles 19:18

I King 7:26 compare with II Chronicles 4:5

II Chronicles 9:25 compare with I King 4:26

You may say this is not so important why he is quoting these verses? What he mean?? in fact my friend this is very important because if we believe that bible is the word of GOD so we must believe too that this GOD is free from any Mistakes or Errors. The verses I quoted is only few Errors found in the Bible , later on I will share with you more facts.

Regarding your questions:

[b:4097ea2fc2]Re: Baptism. How does Baptisim fit into Islam. Jesus said, "Go unto all nations and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." [/b:4097ea2fc2]

First of all you have to understand that we (Muslims) don’t accept that GOD is three in one or simply we don’t believe in trinity.

Allah has said in the Koran:

[b:4097ea2fc2](4-171) - O people of the book commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and his word, which he bestowed on Mary and a spirit proceeding from him: so believe in God and his apostles. say not trinity: desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: glory be to him: (far exalted is he) above having a son. to him belong all things in the heavens and on earth, and enough is God as a disposer of affairs.[/color:4097ea2fc2][/b:4097ea2fc2]

As you can see very clearly GOD never allowed us to say in the name of the father. and of the son and of the holy spirit. So how we can baptize our kids under those names??

Also Jesus said before in the BIBLE which you have it on hand right now. In John 4:21 – 24 Jesus commanded to worship the FATHER (GOD) ALONE and he never said in any part in the Bible AM GOD WORSHIP ME.. Actually Jesus commanded the people to worship the FATHER (GOD) ONLY. and this saying mentioned so many times in the bible if you like I can share with you these verses later.

[b:4097ea2fc2]Re: Where does the "Last Supper" fit? (where Jesus held up bread and wine and said, "Take, eat, this is my body....this is my blood...do this in rememberance of me."[/b:4097ea2fc2]

I wanna ask you please Michelle, is it to remember Jesus you have to drink WINE which is forbidden also in the Bible?? (I will search for the verse later) to tell you my friend that Jesus Christ peace be upon him is always in our heart we (Muslims) don’t need to drink wine to remember him. We simply LOVE JESUS CHRIST without eating bread or drinking wine.

[b:4097ea2fc2](2-136) - Say ye: we believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and that given to Moses and jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to God (in Islam)[/color:4097ea2fc2][/b:4097ea2fc2]

[b:4097ea2fc2]Re: Where does Jesus's resurection fit into Islam? I am taught that Jesus was able to rise from the dead because He was God. If that's not so, then why did he rise from the dead? What does this have to do with/for Islam? [/b:4097ea2fc2]

[b:4097ea2fc2]
(4-157) That they said (in boast), we killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of God; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:[/color:4097ea2fc2]
[/b:4097ea2fc2]


[b:4097ea2fc2]
(3-55)Behold God said: O Jesus I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the day of resurrection: then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.[/color:4097ea2fc2]
[/b:4097ea2fc2]


no one in doubt that GOD love Jesus Christ , and for this reason GOD saved him from Jews. Michelle. Can you imagine that your LORD, your GOD, the creator, the most Powerful DIED????????? Jesus is not responsible for our sins, why would God allow him to die.


Also No one saw Jesus die on the cross. Several Bibles and passages say he did not die:


Bible of Barnabas: "The face of Yehuda who led the soldiers to arrest Christ was transfigured into that of Christ who had been rescued by the Angels through the window to the third Heaven."


Also the Bibles of Basilidains, Docetae, The Marcionite Gospel.


Here you have 4 chosen and recognized Bibles, also Luke 20:34-36, 24:36-41, Hebrew 5:7 and John 20:17 support Jesus was saved.


The Bible says that Jesus did not die on the cross, that his loving creator saved Jesus from the cross as confirmed in the Koran.


God loves Jesus.


Would a compassionate, forgiving, merciful God allow his anointed Jesus to die??


* To say he was sacrificed for us, opposes the Bible's teachings (Hosea6:6) and (Matthew 9:13 and 12:7).


* To say he died on the cross, discredits his prophethood (Deuteronomy 13:5) and (21:22-23).


The Jews claimed they killed him to prove he was a false prophet which they still believe. The Koran is here to unite the Jews and Christians and to have them submit their will to God, to be Muslims.


Where is the information on sacrifice coming from?


Paul, who was a Jew and his belief in Jewish sacrifice was transported into Christianity as suggested by a renowned New Testament scholar V. Taylor "The Atonement in the New Testament Teaching." Paul developed the idea by sending letters to the Corinthians, the Romans 4:25, He told the Galatians 6:4., and Ephesians 5:2, read the history yourself. Christianity is the teaching of Paul, not Jesus.


Well I hope I was able to give you proper answers to your questions , and we are always awaiting your reply and your feed back . And I request from my brothers and sisters to correct for me if I have made any mistake


And lastly Michelle . a little advice. Keep on searching. And believe me my friend. GOD will Guide you to his right path if you are looking for him. Inshaa allah.


Salam


Wel_mel

***Muslimah*** · 07-06-2003, 04:07 PM

Jazakum Allah khairan Wel-mel for your reply.

Michelle. I suggest u do read the links first if u r serious about knowing before asking more questions. Only Allah knows u might have your confusion settled before asking any more. See just take the info u receive and take things step by step. It is not we are not willing to answer. No we are just very sincere in helping. So read the links first. Take the time to do so. [Image: smile.gif]

amai · 07-09-2003, 02:14 PM

Again, someone erased my post without meeting my er... "conditions."

Whoever that person is, you can pm me and explain why you deleted my reply. If you do that, you can then erase this post(yeah, for the 3rd time) and I can have a "peace of mind."

I was just giving Michelle a friendly advice, not demanding her to swallow the Christian teachings. I only asked her to explore both Christianity and Islam with an open and unbiased mind and heart, and that's so dang fair.

***Muslimah*** · 07-09-2003, 03:12 PM

Michelle

Hope u r doing fine, u must be busy reading I guess. [Image: smile.gif]

Waiting to see u. May Allah help u settle the confusion soon.

***Muslimah*** · 07-09-2003, 07:56 PM

Michelle, Insh a Allah I will reply to a number of points.

The only reason I held back was to give u a chance to read rather than fill your brain with info. I am sure u r suffering some confusion.

1. To the best of my knowledge baptism aims at eliminating the original sin (Adam's eating from the forbidden tree).

In Islam Adam already repented before coming down to earth and Allah accepted his repentence ( it is a blessing from Allah that we repent when we sin directly to Him not through confession to a preist).

2. In Islam, there is no father, son and Holy spirit. Only one Allah who begotten no one and was not begotten.

3. Jesus is a Messenger and a Prophet from Allah to his people (children of Israel). He was not even put on the cross. Not at all. How can Allah let his Messenger be crucifed? Well I think it is even stronger. How (may Allah forgive me) a God let his servants crucify him, kill him, make fun of him, spit on him on the cross? How can a god allow himself to be humiliated.

Any way I decided in this post not to discuss details of Christianity. Just to reply to u.

4. In all religions, and I am sure if u read the bible well even the one u have now. Alcohl drink is forbidden. How can Jesus command his followers to drink wine.

5. The last supper was held when Jesus asked his companions who are my supporter for Allah and they said we are and we are Muslims. Then the plot began to be implemented but Allah rescued his Messenger. Allah raised Jesus to the skies in a way unknown to the human beings. While Yahoudha, the one who cooperated against him, Allah made him look exactly like Jesus. The Romans came and busted him. In vain he tried to tell them he is not Jesus. And this was the one who was put on the cross. Not our Prophet Jesus.

Does this quinch your thirst. Hope yes. [Image: smile.gif]

waiting for your feedback

And brother Todd. Don't worry about amai giving her advises to posters. You are well aware that whenever someone is destined to receive the blessing and light from Allah. No matter what they read or hear of distorted info. They Insha Allah land safely on the shore just exactly as Allah blessed u and your whole family.

May Allah maintain His countless bounty on us, you and your family brother. [Image: smile.gif]

Ahmed Abdullah · 07-09-2003, 08:41 PM

Asalamu alikum Sister Muslimah

Yes I know, and I do apologize. I am very sorry I acted this way. Please delete my post if you wish.

***Muslimah*** · 07-09-2003, 09:05 PM

Oh Brother :oops: Mash a Allah what a kind attitude. Allahu a`alam I don't recommend any one to Allah. But u just acted like a Muslim. Brother actually the more amai acts like this running around posters investigating Islam the more I sympathise with her. She is actually in a panic situation. The more she sees people investigating and expressing a desire to embrace Islam the more she feels threatened. Her attitude was different before if u observe. I know how she exactly feels. All what she does is go to sites attacking Islam. Comes back with arguments. Request we answer. When we don't she thinks we are defeated. And I explained to her numerous times. That she has to read what we post for her. May Allah assist her, illuminate her way and heart, she and every single soul looking for the truth. U r one who I think exactly know how she feels.

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me