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wel_mel_2 · 07-08-2006, 06:26 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:Thanks Wel Mel.

I'll read your post when I have more time. And reflect or prove that you are completely wrong in everyway :P ...just kidding.

I look forward to reading it.

take your time to reflect CC, i shall wait for your honest comments.

as for Reep, am still waiting for his answer to my simple question.

Quote:Ok, according to your own 'weird' logic that killing IN ALL CASES CONSIDERED TO BE SIN AND AN ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE TO THE CREATOR. Then you have to tell me, how about those people who have given the commandment that such and such should be killed? Are they considered according to you as sinners or they are absolutely sinless because they just didn’t commit the act of killing?

Salam

Wael.

Salam.

Curious Christian · 07-08-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

Ok let's continue insh'aAllah.

So did Jesus offer any solution for women who feel insecure with their husbands? God in Islam also hated divorce, it is considered to be the most hateful permissible act in Islam. But what would be the solution if both husband and wife could not live together anymore??? What the solution in your Bible?

I guess we have talked about this before, But what would be the solution if both husband and wife could not live together anymore??? What the solution in your Bible?. And since you believe that Jesus is "God" then you will not deny that verses of killing unbelievers of the Bible to be said by Jesus.

Therefore Jesus and Muhammad pbuh have done the same thing (fighting falsehood and spreading the truth)

I have never red those words in the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad, or maybe an not aware. could you please show me the reference?

Anyway, if you want to read the last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh you may visit those websites:

Last Sermon

or

Muhammad pbuh the last messenger.

Doesn’t the Bible instruct the followers to divide the booty of war that they have seized from unbelievers?

Who instructed them? God Almighty which you believe to be “Jesus”.

Now open your Bible and read Numbers 31:1- 51

And you will notice the following points;

1- One thousand men from every tribe from the 12 tribes of Israel joined in the battle against the Midianites. (Numbers 31:4-5).

2- A mass slaughter took place against all males (infants, children, grown men and elderly) and all non-virgin females (Numbers 31:7,17-18).

3- Eleazar took 50% of his men's share
 (Numbers 31:28-29).

4- Everyone ended up giving a sacrifice or "gift to the LORD" from their share. So not only Eleazar took 50% of his men's share, which he gave some of it as a "gift to the LORD," but his men also had to pay a "gift" from their remaining 50% (Numbers 31:52).

At least the Noble Quran mixed the needy and wayfarers with the Prophet's 20% share of the spoils of War. Also, no need to mention that Prophet Muhammad was the most generous and gave most of his wealth to the poor and the needy. In many hadiths we find that Aisha may Allah be please with her informed us that many nights passed on them without anything for them to eat because they use to give all what they have to those in need.

Show me a single verse from the Qur’an that says to ATTACK any city that rejected Islam.

Where ??

Am waiting

I will not repeat what I’ve said in the other thread regarding miracles. I have a feeling now that you don’t read my responses to your posts with care. Which is not so good. I already told you that miracles are not the test AT ALL to prove that this person is a Prophet or not.

yes you are totally wrong, Muhammad did so many miracles. and i will start new thread to show you some Miracles which were performed by Prophet Muhamamd.

Why can’t you verify and study the NT and try to come up with conclusion by yourself whether it is a miracle or man made book?

The Qur’an can stand the test of time. Any allegation that was made against the Qur’an was refuted. The Qur’an challenges you or anyone who denies or doubts the source of the Qur’an to produce a chapter like it if you are truthful.

But if ye cannot –And of a surely you cannot. Then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – Which is prepared for those who reject Faith.” (Al-Qur’an 2:23-24)

and please note that the smallest chapter in the Qur'an (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet this challenge, then or today. Some of the disbelieving Arabs who were enemies of the Prophet Muhammad tried to meet this challenge to prove that Muhammad (PBUH) was not a true prophet, but they failed miserably.

The Qur’an itself says that am open for any challenges. Here I am if you can find a single fault in me, then I will be proved wrong. But who can meet that challenge CC? Can you challenge the Creator??? The greatest enemy of Islam ABU LAHA WAS NOT ABLE TO MEET THE CHALLENGE. WILL YOU CC???

"If the Mankind and the Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another."(Qur'an 17:88)

ALLAHU AKBAR.

Again, The Qur'an isthe miracle of all miracles.

The Qur'an is the most positive Book in the world.

it is:

1- A proclamation to humanity:


2- It is a fountain of Mercy and wisdom.

3- It is a warning to the heedless.

4- It is a guide to those in doubt.

5- It is a solace to the suffering.

6- And it is a hope to those in despair.

Salam.

Wael.

Bismillah:

You are just such a picky guy.

When I said Muhammad did commit sins, I meant mistakes which are unintentionally and not to disobey God. You just picked one sentence of my own words to contradict me.

Salam

Wael.

Quote:But what would be the solution if both husband and wife could not live together anymore??? What the solution in your Bible?

God creates the bond of Marriage. Simply "not liking eachother" is no reason. The Bible, therefore, does not provide an outlet for people who just want to give up. However, if a husband is abusive or somebody is unfaithful then that is different.

Quote:I guess we have talked about this before, the Bible also commanded the believers to fight the unbelievers in case of self defense. And since you believe that Jesus is "God" then you will not deny that verses of killing unbelievers of the Bible to be said by Jesus.

I am not sure what you are talking about here.

wel_mel_2 · (This post was last modified: 07-09-2006, 01:06 AM by wel_mel_2.)

Bismillah:

Quote:God creates the bond of Marriage. Simply "not liking eachother" is no reason. The Bible, therefore, does not provide an outlet for people who just want to give up. However, if a husband is abusive or somebody is unfaithful then that is different.

in my opinion, a perfect religion has to offer the solution for such problems, and that's why divorce in Islam is permits if life became unbearable between husband and wife.

Quote:I am not sure what you are talking about here.

i was talking about for example verses like this:

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." 

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die." 

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

these are only three verses that i mentioned concerning killing those who ask you to worship other gods. but there are other verses about killing innocent kids too, and many others.

Salam

Wael.

reepicheep · 07-09-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:And he entered the city at a time when its people were not watching: and he found there two men fighting,- one of his own religion, and the other, of his foes. Now the man of his own religion appealed to him against his foe, and Moses struck him with his fist and made an end of him. He said: "This is a work of Evil (Satan):
for he is an enemy that manifestly misleads!" Surah 28:15

According to the Koran, Moses clearly states that the murder he had just committed was an act of evil. So, obviously, Moses was a sinner.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that it is not a sin when a Muslim does the "work of Satan".

wel_mel_2 · (This post was last modified: 07-09-2006, 01:29 AM by wel_mel_2.)

Bismillah:

Quote:According to the Koran, Moses clearly states that the murder he had just committed was an act of evil. So, obviously, Moses was a sinner.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that it is not a sin when a Muslim does the "work of Satan".

how about Jesus? didnt he approve of killing too? so you are saying that he too committed the "work of Satan" did he? therefore Jesus is not sinless, because he thought and order of Evil things to be done.

Salam

Wael

reepicheep · 07-09-2006, 01:58 AM

wel_mel_2 wrote:

> how about Jesus? didnt he approve of killing too? so you are

> saying that he too committed the "work of Satan" did he?

> therefore Jesus is not sinless, because he thought and order

> of Evil things to be done.

I find it interesting that you would claim that Jesus was a sinner. The Koran disagrees with you (see, for example, surahs 3:46, 6:86, 19:19).

What is the evidence for your claim that muslims believe Jesus was a sinner?

Christians believe that Jesus is God. So of course we, like Muslims, believe that Jesus was sinless.

In any case, I fail to see how your claim that Jesus was a sinner provides any evidence whatsoever in support of your other claim that Moses was not a sinner.

wel_mel_2 · 07-09-2006, 07:42 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:I find it interesting that you would claim that Jesus was a sinner. The Koran disagrees with you (see, for example, surahs 3:46, 6:86, 19:19).
What is the evidence for your claim that muslims believe Jesus was a sinner?

I believe that he was sinless too (and I already explained the difference between SINS and MISTAKE), and also I did prove from your own Bible NOT THE QUR'AN, that if killing IN ALL CASES considered to be a sin, then Jesus would be the first to be called sinful because he approved of killing in certain situation.

Quote:In any case, I fail to see how your claim that Jesus was a sinner provides any evidence whatsoever in support of your other claim that Moses was not a sinner.

I did quote you from your own Bible where he approved and order his followers (IF HE WAS GOD) to put anyone to death if he or she invites them to worship other gods. Is that not same as what Moses did?

Quote:Christians believe that Jesus is God. So of course we, like Muslims, believe that Jesus was sinless.

I also proved from your own Bible that Jesus was not the only sinless man ever; there are many people in your Bible who were sinless too and PERFECT. Such as Noah and Job, so to say that Jesus is the only SINLESS man, then you have to support your claim with some proofs, which you did not.

Your fellow Christian Brother CC, already admitted that all miracles that done by Jesus were not his own and they were the work of God Almighty who did create Jesus. This is another proof that Jesus is not GOD, no matter how you try to stretch your Bible to suite your desire. He is not God.

Salam

Wael.

Curious Christian · 07-09-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:Your fellow Christian Brother CC, already admitted that all miracles that done by Jesus were not his own and they were the work of God Almighty who did create Jesus.

Salam

Wael.

Not so fast...what I said was that the miracles done by Jesus was the work of God. As you know, I believe that Jesus IS God. Ergo, the miracles were done by God....

wel_mel_2 · (This post was last modified: 07-10-2006, 01:49 AM by wel_mel_2.)

Bismillah:

Quote:Not so fast...what I said was that the miracles done by Jesus was the work of God. As you know, I believe that Jesus IS God. Ergo, the miracles were done by God....

Nice try, ambiguous as usual.

If Jesus is God, then how he did not know about the Day of Judgment? am not going to argue over this matter again. I’ve presented the truth and you have to decide for yourself.

There not a single unequivocal statement from Jesus himself where he say am God or where he say worship me. There is none.

in fact, if you read the Gospel of Matthew, 26:39 we are told that Jesus "fell on his face, and prayed" to God. And in the Gospel According to John, 17:3, Jesus declares that the one he prayed to is the only true God. there is no point at all for Jesus to pray if he was God. well nothing else to say.

Salam

wael.

Curious Christian · 07-10-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

Nice try, ambiguous as usual.

If Jesus is God, then how he did not know about the Day of Judgment? am not going to argue over this matter again. I’ve presented the truth and you have to decide for yourself.

There not a single unequivocal statement from Jesus himself where he say am God or where he say worship me. There is none.

in fact, if you read the Gospel of Matthew, 26:39 we are told that Jesus "fell on his face, and prayed" to God. And in the Gospel According to John, 17:3, Jesus declares that the one he prayed to is the only true God. there is no point at all for Jesus to pray if he was God. well nothing else to say.

Salam

wael.

Quote:Nice try, ambiguous as usual.

That was kind of mean...but I take no offense.

Quote:There not a single unequivocal statement from Jesus himself where he say am God or where he say worship me.

Like I've said...this means nothing. There is also not an explicit statement in the Bible that the apostle Paul wasn't a homosexual (as some deviants and haters of the truth have spouted). Just because there is no statement that shouts the fact Paul wasn't gay doesn't mean that he was.

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