Question for Christian members

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

Our worship is based in scripture. The "early" chruch I speak of were the churhces founded by the Apostle Paul, who you may know, wrote (under divine authority and influence) most of the New Testament.

even making the cross sing and giving the cross such sanctity? Is it in the bible? although again the cross didnt gain such status until after the claimed crucifixtion.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah


even making the cross sing and giving the cross such sanctity? Is it in the bible? although again the cross didnt gain such status until after the claimed crucifixtion.

Does not Islam have a symbol? Is Ramadan taught in the Qur'an or was it derived after the Qur'an and time of Mohammed?


Is there nothing that Muslims do which is based on tradition as opposed to explicitly being taught in the Qur'an? I brought up Shia muslims cutting their heads. Is that in the Qur'an???

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Does not Islam have a symbol? Is Ramadan taught in the Qur'an or was it derived after the Qur'an and time of Mohammed?

<b>Yes Ramadan is taught in the Qur’an. </b>


The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month, and whosoever of you is sick or on a journey, (let him fast the same) number of other days. Allah desireth for you ease; He desireth not hardship for you; and (He desireth) that ye should complete the period, and that ye should magnify Allah for having guided you, and that peradventure ye may be thankful.
Qur'an (2:185).

Is there nothing that Muslims do which is based on tradition as opposed to explicitly being taught in the Qur'an?

There are the traditions of the prophet Muhammad pbuh whom we follow <b>BECAUSE we are also told in the Qur’an to follow his example and tradition.</b> But we don’t follow innovations that has nothing to do with religion.


As we said many times, our faith is based on these 2 sources. The Qur’an and the example of our beloved prophet Muhammad PBUH.

I brought up Shia muslims cutting their heads. Is that in the Qur'an???

Did you read my answer concerning your post “Sunni-Shia” ??


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Did you read my answer concerning your post “Sunni-Shia” ??


Salam


Wael.

Yes I did read it.


My point about the head cutting was to ask if that act and tradition was taught in the Qur'an....

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam Curious,


May be u r unable to believe me, but in no way with my points raised to you, I mean to corner u, or win a debate. I m not here for this. I always assure non muslim members about this. Yet they cannt grasp the idea that we are only after their own interest.


Curious, as Wael quoted the Quran Ayah for u, Ramdan is part and parcel of the Islamic worship.


Just to let u feel good, no the head cutting is not of Islam. However, they dont ascribe the act sanctity, neither do they place it as part of worship which if not performed one would be sinful.


Unlike what I m talking to you about.


Curious, prayer is an essential part of the worship that it carries certain conotations. When u pefrom it the way u do as a Christian with basis, important basis, are not taken after the Lord. This creates major problem


Curious, prayer in Islam is the second pillar. Each and every movement that we learnt from the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him who in turn learnt it from Arch Angle Jebreel, has a deep meaning.


I will not elaborate to you now. I will only explain two movements.


For instance, prayer in Islam is performed over five times. Each time consists of a number of units that differ from one time to another. The unit is called Raka`a. Now as we explained this, in each unit we are commanded to recite quran while standing up, then the second movement is that we bow down. Like when one greets a kingl


To make it easier, pls check this video:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3356 and look at the man bowing down, then standing up then going down to the floor prostrating.


When we bow down, we put our heads down only to Allah, we are taught to say a certain supplication at this position. The supplication is;


Sobhan Rubial A`zeem. Which translates as: Glory be to my Lord the Most Great. Pls note that at that time, people used to bow down to their kings and monarchs in respect, giving them a great position. Thus, Allah Commanded us at this position to remember that only Allah Is The Great. That we should always keep this in mind and heart, that we should lead our lives thru this same motto. To the same purpose, we do bow in order to practically establish the fact that Allah Is the Great by tongue, heart and also physical movement. While when we prostrate down, again refer back to the video, we use another supplication that also corresponds well to the position. We say, Sobhan Rubyial A`la which translates as Glory be to my Lord the Most High. Just ponder on the meaning of the supplication Curious. When we go down to the floor with our forehead and faces on the floor, we remember that only Allah Is the One Worth of this position. Also note that at that time, Persians used to prostrate down the floor to their Kisra (monarchs). Allah Granted us a most respectful status but not being humiliated to human beings. Allah Wills for us to remember that only Allah Is the Most high when we are down the floor.


That is only a small part of what prayer means Curious. That what we learnt from Allah to connect to HIm.


i will not repeat myself here and tell u again what i meant when I refered to a main and essential part of the Chrisitian rituals.


Just ponder before u jump to be defensive. Believe me I can understand your position.


May Allah Accept.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah


salam Curious,


May be u r unable to believe me, but in no way with my points raised to you, I mean to corner u, or win a debate. I m not here for this. I always assure non muslim members about this. Yet they cannt grasp the idea that we are only after their own interest.


Curious, as Wael quoted the Quran Ayah for u, Ramdan is part and parcel of the Islamic worship.


Just to let u feel good, no the head cutting is not of Islam. However, they dont ascribe the act sanctity, neither do they place it as part of worship which if not performed one would be sinful.


Unlike what I m talking to you about.


Curious, prayer is an essential part of the worship that it carries certain conotations. When u pefrom it the way u do as a Christian with basis, important basis, are not taken after the Lord. This creates major problem


Curious, prayer in Islam is the second pillar. Each and every movement that we learnt from the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him who in turn learnt it from Arch Angle Jebreel, has a deep meaning.


I will not elaborate to you now. I will only explain two movements.


For instance, prayer in Islam is performed over five times. Each time consists of a number of units that differ from one time to another. The unit is called Raka`a. Now as we explained this, in each unit we are commanded to recite quran while standing up, then the second movement is that we bow down. Like when one greets a kingl


To make it easier, pls check this video:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3356 and look at the man bowing down, then standing up then going down to the floor prostrating.


When we bow down, we put our heads down only to Allah, we are taught to say a certain supplication at this position. The supplication is;


Sobhan Rubial A`zeem. Which translates as: Glory be to my Lord the Most Great. Pls note that at that time, people used to bow down to their kings and monarchs in respect, giving them a great position. Thus, Allah Commanded us at this position to remember that only Allah Is The Great. That we should always keep this in mind and heart, that we should lead our lives thru this same motto. To the same purpose, we do bow in order to practically establish the fact that Allah Is the Great by tongue, heart and also physical movement. While when we prostrate down, again refer back to the video, we use another supplication that also corresponds well to the position. We say, Sobhan Rubyial A`la which translates as Glory be to my Lord the Most High. Just ponder on the meaning of the supplication Curious. When we go down to the floor with our forehead and faces on the floor, we remember that only Allah Is the One Worth of this position. Also note that at that time, Persians used to prostrate down the floor to their Kisra (monarchs). Allah Granted us a most respectful status but not being humiliated to human beings. Allah Wills for us to remember that only Allah Is the Most high when we are down the floor.


That is only a small part of what prayer means Curious. That what we learnt from Allah to connect to HIm.


i will not repeat myself here and tell u again what i meant when I refered to a main and essential part of the Chrisitian rituals.


Just ponder before u jump to be defensive. Believe me I can understand your position.


May Allah Accept.

Muslimah. I have no doubt that you have my and all or our best interests at heart. Sorry if I come off sounding defensive at times. This is a little hard for me as I am, at times, all by myself answering all your (Muslimah, Wael, Rock, Puppet etc) questions.


Prayer is also a central part in the life of a Christian. The focus on prayer ought not be on ourselves but on God Almighty.


"When u pefrom it the way u do as a Christian with basis, important basis, are not taken after the Lord." I don't know where you get that idea. That is not a Christian approach.


"Glory be to my Lord the Most High." That is no different than the millions of prayers offered to God everyday by Christians. I think you may have the misconception that Christians don't revere God??? <i>Hallowed is the name...Holy Holy Holy is Christ Almighty...Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost whose kingdom shall have no end.</i> That is how I pray. All that is taken from the Bible.


I respect the Muslim reverence towards God. Many Christians could definitely learn a lot from that sort of reverence. Because I am a Christian I don't believe that Mohammed was a prophet at all and don't believe in Allah as described in the Qur'an. I don't believe that Allah is the same God as the God who made a covenant with Abraham. Therefore, I think that Muslim reverence is misguided and ineffectual. I don't think one can have any communion with God without Christ. This is what Christ taught us.


And again, by saying that I am not trying to offend any of you. That is the just the truth.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Curious, I m not the least offended, certainly I m fully aware that u dont beleive neither in Allah the way Allah Is Described in Quran nor Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him as a prophet. Logically, if to u God sent his only son, how can he be succeeded by a prophet and why?


However, u tend to loose my main point, not sure if it is my mistake that i m not conveying it properly. I didnt say that u dont rever god, neither did i say anything about what u recite. But rather how u perfrom it.


<b>even making the cross sign and giving the cross such sanctity? Is it in the bible? although again the cross didnt gain such status until after the claimed crucifixtion.
</b>


Not to mention the rest of the stuff. For example, how did the Evangilicans institute more chorus singing in the their services compared to other services? let me be more specific, where did you get the commands to hold the services the way they are held? Divine by biblical verses, or traditions thru human beings??????????


I know how u feel, u want to say u r overwhelmed. However, u r here to learn, so dont waste the chance.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

Why wouldn't it be alcoholic wine???


God doesn't prohibite drinking wine....just drunkeness.


In addition to the last supper Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding party...and we know that it was <i>good</i> wine.

Curious, I m not sure if I mentioned that I m not well versed with the Bible as my brother Wael, however, I knew that there are verses which prohibits alcohol drinking. Wael was able to identify them:


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. [Proverbs, 20:1]


And be not drunk with wine. [Ephesians 5 :18]

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah


Curious, I m not sure if I mentioned that I m not well versed with the Bible as my brother Wael, however, I knew that there are verses which prohibits alcohol drinking. Wael was able to identify them:


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. [Proverbs, 20:1]


And be not drunk with wine. [Ephesians 5 :18]

Those verses are about getting drunk...which I agree is sin.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah


Curious, I m not the least offended, certainly I m fully aware that u dont beleive neither in Allah the way Allah Is Described in Quran nor Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him as a prophet. Logically, if to u God sent his only son, how can he be succeeded by a prophet and why?


However, u tend to loose my main point, not sure if it is my mistake that i m not conveying it properly. I didnt say that u dont rever god, neither did i say anything about what u recite. But rather how u perfrom it.


<b>even making the cross sign and giving the cross such sanctity? Is it in the bible? although again the cross didnt gain such status until after the claimed crucifixtion.
</b>


Not to mention the rest of the stuff. For example, how did the Evangilicans institute more chorus singing in the their services compared to other services? let me be more specific, where did you get the commands to hold the services the way they are held? Divine by biblical verses, or traditions thru human beings??????????


I know how u feel, u want to say u r overwhelmed. However, u r here to learn, so dont waste the chance.

I am going to do a little research for you on this...give me time.