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Bismillah:
Quote:Wel_mel_2, I'm having difficulty understanding the point you are trying to make. Are the following two statements an accurate summary of what you believe?
(1) More than one English language translation of the bible exists (for example, the KJV, the RSV, and the NIV). This proves that the bible is full of lies and half truths.
What I meant exactly is that I don’t know which <i>version</i> of the above mentioned bibles (PLUS THE RCV and others) we can rely on?? You have many versions and almost <b>all of them are not matching with each other.</b>
Quote:(2) More than one English language translation of the koran exists (for example, Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, and Shakir). This proves that every single word of the koran is true.
Let me remind you that ‘translation’ and ‘version’ are not the same thing. Your Bibles are available in many different VERSIONS. Our Qur’an is available in different translations. And the different here is in the <b>‘choice of words’ </b> <b>and not in the meaning</b>. The meaning is the same from translation to another. But your Bibles daffier from version to another. and this is exactly what i meant.
Salam
Wael
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Wel_mel_2, I still don't know what you are trying to say.
You seem to be saying that it is acceptable to translate manuscripts from Arabic to English, but unacceptable to translate manuscripts from Greek and Hebrew into English. Is this correct? Is your rejection of the bible based solely upon the fact that it was written in Greek and Hebrew and not Arabic?
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Curious Christian wrote:
> Your quote is interesting. The Holy Spirit does preserve
> the Word does it not?
Yes, I agree with you 100%. But you will find it difficult to convince any of the Muslim posters on this web site that this is the case.
Curious Christian wrote:
> Please check this board often and chime-in.
> I could use the help.
Instead of posting on the IslamMessage website, I've picked up a new hobby which involves going outside and banging my head against a brick wall. I find that the two hobbies (posting on IslamMessage, and banging my head against a wall) accomplish the same purpose, and are equally enjoyable.
There was a Christian poster named Ronniv93 who used to post here, and she stopped posting after handing the responsibility over to me. I am more than happy to pass the torch on to you...
Actually, I pretty well stopped posting on this and other Sunni websites back in February. I've instead been spending the time posting on a couple of Shiite websites. I find that Shiites are much more moderate in their views, and it's much more enjoyable and productive to discuss matters of theology with them, than to hold those discussions with Sunnis.
Reepicheep.
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Bismillah:
Quote:Wel_mel_2, I still don't know what you are trying to say.
You seem to be saying that it is acceptable to translate manuscripts from Arabic to English, but unacceptable to translate manuscripts from Greek and Hebrew into English. Is this correct? Is your rejection of the bible based solely upon the fact that it was written in Greek and Hebrew and not Arabic?
Are you trying to misquote me or you really don’t understand what I said?
I have no problem if you translate the original manuscripts from Hebrew and Greek into the English language, but my main issue here is WHICH BIBLE TODAY IS THE CORRECT TRANSLATION OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT? The KJV is totally different from the RSV. The RCV is totally different from both versions. So how will anyone come to know the correct version?
I hope you understand my point now.
Salam
Wael.
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06-12-2006, 11:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2006, 11:49 AM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
salam all
I can see that this thread is really going off topic, Wael your post was very informative, i never knew they use snakes based on this verse la hawla wala qowata ila billah. But the thread went into again the same old theme of whether or not the bible is the word of Allah.
reepi welcome back, for such notes pls do pm the member, it is totally off topic. I will clean as much as possible. I leave the rest here regarding the bible comparison although I d move it to a bible related thread. BUt well I will leave it here. reepi u always seem to loose the point.
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06-12-2006, 11:48 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2006, 12:03 PM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
Curious, sorry for this but i did reply without asking you to bring forth the hadeeth based on which u actually started your thread. I mean where did you read that the Messenger Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him told us to read the bible for guidance?
There is one Ayah, may be this will help u actually more on this same topic:
"O people of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians): "Why do you disbelieve in the Signs of Allah, [the Verses about Prophet Muhammad present in the Torah and the Gospel] while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." (Quran 3:70)
"And if only they had acted according to the Torah, the Gospel, and what has (now) been sent down to them from their Lord, they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. There are from among them people who are on the right course, but many of them do evil deeds." (Quran 5:66)
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Quote:Bismillah
Curious, sorry for this but i did reply without asking you to bring forth the hadeeth based on which u actually started your thread. I mean where did you read that the Messenger Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him told us to read the bible for guidance?
There is one Ayah, may be this will help u actually more on this same topic:
"O people of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians): "Why do you disbelieve in the Signs of Allah, [the Verses about Prophet Muhammad present in the Torah and the Gospel] while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." (Quran 3:70)
"And if only they had acted according to the Torah, the Gospel, and what has (now) been sent down to them from their Lord, they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. There are from among them people who are on the right course, but many of them do evil deeds." (Quran 5:66)
Muslimah.
Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."
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Bismillah
salam reepi
Quote:Curious Christian wrote:
> Your quote is interesting. The Holy Spirit does preserve
> the Word does it not?
Reepicheep.
Question, u mean that preserving the holy book is not the duty of God but rather the holy spirit? who revealed it then?
And if my question will take us off topic, pls say so and start a new thread.
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06-12-2006, 12:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2006, 01:17 PM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
Quote:Muslimah.
Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."
Thank u Curious, just a correction for you. You quoted a verse from Quran, yet u started the thread by saying why did Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him told u so.
Quran is not authored by the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him but rather revealed from Allah. Thus, u should ve said why did Allah Command u to read it.
Just a linguistic correction as well as a belief one. :)
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06-12-2006, 01:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2006, 01:39 PM by reepicheep.)
wel_mel_2 wrote:
> I have no problem if you translate the original
> manuscripts from Hebrew and Greek into the
> English language, but my main issue here is
> WHICH BIBLE TODAY IS THE CORRECT
> TRANSLATION OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT?
Good. You have expressed a rational, coherent thought which I can respond to, and which we can then discuss.
Let's take, as an example, the first part of surah 4:11 from the koran:
the Yusuf Ali translation reads:
> Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's
> (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that
> of two females: if only daughters, two or more,
the Pickthal translation reads:
> Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for)
> your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion
> of two females, and if there be women more than two,
Obviously, the two translations contradict each other (i.e., if you look at the part I've hilighted in red, Yusuf Ali includes the case where the number of daughters is "2", while Pickthal excludes this case).
I have no problem if you translate the original manuscripts from Arabic into the English language, but my main issue here is
WHICH KORAN TODAY IS THE CORRECT TRANSLATION OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT?
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Muslimah wrote:
> Question, u mean that preserving the holy book is not the
> duty of God but rather the holy spirit? who revealed it then?
Christians believe that the Holy Spirit IS God.
Remember, Christians believe in the Trinity (three Gods in one and one God in three). Each part of the Trinity has different responsibilities. The Holy Spirit (for example) can be thought of as the direct interface between God and humanity. So Christians believe, then, that God (the Holy Spirit) was present in the people who recorded and preserved the bible.
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