some points concerning science and the Bible

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:


Assalmo ALikum.


as I mentioned to brother Christian Curious that am going to bring up some points concerning Biblical statements that seems to be conflicting with modern science. I would like to hear CC's comments on these points.


This work is taken from Dr Zakir Naik's debate with Dr William Campbell regarding Qur'an and Bible in the light of science.


22 points were raised by Dr Zakir and Dr Campbell was asked to answer and clarify those points. And he was very honest when he said:

“Well Dr. Naik has brought up some real problems
- And there are also these problems that he has said. <b>I do not deny them, and I don’t have good answers for them
”</b>

<b>POINT NUMBER ONE:</b>


‘The creation of the Earth and the Heaven - the universe was in six, 24-hour days.


1- In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says… ‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods.


<b>POINT NUMBER TWO:</b>


Light was then before the source of light


2- Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific.


<b>POINT NUMBER THREE:</b>


Day came into existence before creation of Earth.


3- The, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day?


<b>POINT NUMBER FOUR:</b>


Earth came into existence before Sun.


4- Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun – It is unscientific.


<b>POIN NUMBER FIVE:</b>


Vegetation came into existence, before sunlight Point


5- 5, the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ?


<b>POIN NUMBER SIX:</b>


Light of the Moon is its own light.


6- the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have.


<b>POINT NUMBER SEVEN:</b>


The earth - Will it perish or will it abide forever?


7- It is mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No.1 Verses No.10 and 11, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.102, Verse No.25 and 26, that…‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, and they will perish.’ Exactly opposite is mentioned in the book of Ecclesiastics, Ch. No.1, Verse No.4, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.78, Verse No.69, that… ‘The earth will abide forever.’


<b>POINR NUMBER EIGHT: </b>


The heavens have got pillars


8- the Bible says in Job, Ch. 26, Verse 11, that…‘The pillars of the Heaven will tremble.’ Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No.10, that…‘The Heavens are without any pillars - Don`t you see? Don’t you see the Heavens are without any pillars? - Bible says heaven have got pillars.


<b>POINR NUMBER NINE:</b>


The earth has got pillars.


9- Not only do the Heavens have got pillars - Bible says in the first book of Samuel, Ch. No.2 Verses No.8, as well as the book of Job Ch. No.9, Verse No.6, and the book of Psalms Ch. No.75, Verse No.3, that… ‘Even the earth have got pillars.’


<b>POINT NUMBER TEN:</b>


God said… ‘You can have all plants and all vegetation, including the poisonous plants?’


The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that… ‘God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.’ New International Version says… ‘The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.’ Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die.


<b>POINT NUMBER ELEVEN:</b>


The scientific test the falsification test, of Mark, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 17 and 18.


11- The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test which no Christian could ever pass.


<b>POINT NUMBER TWELVE:</b>


The rainbow


12- Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.9, Verse No.13 to 17, that… ‘After God, at the time of Noah submerged the world by flood, and after the flood’ subsided, He said… ‘I put up a rainbow in the sky as a promise to the humankind never to submerge the world again, by water. To the unscientific person it may be quite good… ‘Oh rainbow is a sign of Almighty God, never to submerge the world by flood again.’ But today we know very well, that rainbow is due to the refraction of sunlight, with rain or mist. Surely there must have been thousands of rainbows before the time of Noah, peace be upon him. To say it was not there before Noah’s time you have to assume that the law of refraction did not exist - which is unscientific.


<b>POINT NUMBER THIRTEEN:</b>


Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy?


13- the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it.


You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin


<b>POINT NUMBER FOURTEEN:</b>


A woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a daughter, as compared to a son.


14- in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. It she give birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days. I would like anyone to explain to me scientifically, how come a woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a female child, as compared to a male child.


<b>POINT NUMBER FIFTEEN: </b>


How do you find out the bitter water test for adultery?


15- The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery, in the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31. I’ll just say in brief. It says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. Unscientific.


<b>POINT NUMBER SIXTEEN:</b>


Eighteen different contradictions in less than 60 Verses of Ezra, Ch. 2, and Nehemiah, Ch. 7. I did not count them as 18 different - I counted them only as one.


16- It is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.1, and Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.6, the context that… ‘When the people returned from exile, from Babylon, when king Nebucheldeser of Babylon, when he released the men from Israel, they came back from captivity’ - and the list of the people are given. The list is given in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.2 to 63, and Nehemiah Ch. No.7, Verse No.7 up to 65; the list is given with the names as well as number of people released. In these 60 Verses there are no less than 18 times - the name is exactly the same but the number is different. There are no less than 18 contradictions in less than 60 Verses, of these two Chapters. This is the list - I don’t have time to run through the list - There are no less than 18 different contradictions in less than 60 Verses. Further it is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2 Verse No.64 that… ‘The total congregation, if you add up… if you add up, it comes to 42,360.’ And if you read in Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.66, there also the total is the same 42,360. But if you add up all these verses - which I had to do my homework - this is the list of Ezra… this is the list of Nehemiah. Ezra Ch. No 2, Nehemiah Ch. No 7 - If you add up - I had to do my homework…if you add up, Ezra Ch. No. 2 - It does not come to 42,360 - it comes to 29,818. And if you add up Nehemiah, Ch. No. 7, even then it does not come to 42,360 - It comes to 31,089. mathimatical error.


Actually there were 22 points or more raised by Dr Zakir Naik but I think those 16 points are enough for now.


CC, please don’t feel that I was attacking your faith or showing any disrespect to your religion. But if you do have any answer for the above problems please do let me know.


Thanks.


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Thanks. Give me some time for most of your questions...


Let me first address the points concerning the creation of the earth. I whole heartedly believe in a literal 6 day creation (6 24 hour periods). There are volumes and volumes written about this from a firm scientific standpoint.


You said, "Scientists now know that 6 day creation isn't possible." - Hold it for a second. Scientists <b>DON'T</b> know this. I could spend hours and hours talking to you about Creation Science.


There are many scientists from all fields you believe a 6 day creation based on scientific evidence.


I can't spend all day today here so let me just point you to a few websites which are dedicated to the issue. You may not come away believing as I do about the subject, but you will have to admit that the issue is debatable and the possibilities exist.


http://www.answersingenesis.org/


http://www.sixdaycreation.com/


http://www.icr.org/


Pay special attention to the Scientific evidence about a young earth and literal 6 day creation. Verily there are even atheist scientists who hold to a young earth theory who were pursuaded by science.


I would say that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in Creationism.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Thanks. Give me some time for most of your questions...


Let me first address the points concerning the creation of the earth. I whole heartedly believe in a literal 6 day creation (6 24 hour periods). There are volumes and volumes written about this from a firm scientific standpoint.


You said, "Scientists now know that 6 day creation isn't possible." - Hold it for a second. Scientists <b>DON'T</b> know this. I could spend hours and hours talking to you about Creation Science.

i forgot to tell you in my last post that there there are certain people who say that the six days mentioned in the Bible it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is however illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, But even if I accept this for the sake of arguments, no problem. I agree but yet you will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet you cannot solve. but if i agree with you that ‘it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. <b>But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs</b>. <b>If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.</b> I leave it to you to choose, whether you want to say… ‘It is long period’, and say that there are only 4 scientific errors - or say… ‘It is a 24 hour day’, and say there is only 5 scientific errors in the creation of the universe.


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


i forgot to tell you in my last post that there there are certain people who say that the six days mentioned in the Bible it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is however illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, But even if I accept this for the sake of arguments, no problem. I agree but yet you will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet you cannot solve. but if i agree with you that ‘it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. <b>But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs</b>. <b>If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.</b> I leave it to you to choose, whether you want to say… ‘It is long period’, and say that there are only 4 scientific errors - or say… ‘It is a 24 hour day’, and say there is only 5 scientific errors in the creation of the universe.


Salam


Wael.

Greetings. I intended to spend some time yesterday evening on your questions. However, I got home and found a small water stain on my ceiling. I went into my attic and found that the drainage pan for my air conditioner was stopped up. I cleared the line and fixed that part of it....then I went down stairs as was attempting to clean up the stain on the ceiling when all of a sudden about 25 square feet of drywall came crashing down on me covering me with wet attic insulation and filth...needless to say I spent my evening cleaning up that mess...I think God does have a sense of humor.


I must work today. Hopefully I'll have time this evening to spend on the rest of your questions.


However. Know this...the Bible teaches us that Christ the creator created the earth. We learn throughout the Bible that many things are beyond human understanding. Christ showed that he had the ability to create earthly things with the appearance of age.


For example in John 2 we read:


<b>John 2</b>


Jesus Changes Water to Wine


1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."


4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."


5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."


6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]


7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.


8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."


They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."


11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.


We both know that wine is fermented and it takes time, often dozens of years to have good win. Jesus made the wine in an instant and Lo it was Good Wine. The Creator has absolute authority of his creation and thus can make anything whether it be wine or the mountains with the appearance of age.


So. When you say, "It's illogical" I say, <b>"No it isn't. God is all powerfull."</b>


You may also tell me that it's illogical for Jesus to calm the storm, walk on water, raise people from the dead, heal blind people and forgive sins. However, He did all those things.


Much of what God does is beyond human understanding. We are but saplings of intellect compared to His knowledge and authority over everything.

[Curious Christian]

OK...I got a lunch break real quick...


_______________________________________________________________


<b>"Light of the Moon is its own light.</b>


<b>6- the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have."</b>


I don't know that that is a contradiction to science at all. The moon does provide light in the night-time sky albeit from the reflection of the sun. We do have light during the night as a result of the moon's position.


_______________________________________________________________


<b>The heavens have got pillars</b>


8- the Bible says in Job, Ch. 26, Verse 11, that…‘The pillars of the Heaven will tremble.’ Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No.10, that…‘The Heavens are without any pillars - Don`t you see? Don’t you see the Heavens are without any pillars? - Bible says heaven have got pillars.


Uh...I guess you can assume that the Qur'an is correct on this issue. But who knows if the Heavens have pillars or not. Maybe the Qur'an is wrong and the bible is correct. The verse in Job is referring to Paradise and nobody has been there who has come back to tell us about it.


A footnote in my bible says the following:


"Not that heaven has pillars to uphold it, but he speaks by a similitude as though he would say heaven itself is not able to abide his reproach."


_______________________________________________________________


<b>9- Not only do the Heavens have got pillars - Bible says in the first book of Samuel, Ch. No.2 Verses No.8, as well as the book of Job Ch. No.9, Verse No.6, and the book of Psalms Ch. No.75, Verse No.3, that… ‘Even the earth have got pillars.’</b>


The farthest scientist have ever drilled into the earth's surface don't come close to revealing the nature of what is contained in the earth. Maybe we'll discover more the future to lend insight on what was meant here.


What He is doing is declaring the infirmity of man, by the mighty and incomprehensible power that is in God, showing what he could do if he would set forth his power. "Shaking Pillars" is a saying meaning to destroy, make tremble. God is the Creator and thus has dominon over His creation.


I don't know that either term "pillar" could be taken literally.


_______________________________________________


<b>God said… ‘You can have all plants and all vegetation, including the poisonous plants?’</b>


The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that… ‘God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.’ New International Version says… ‘The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.’ Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die.


Wel mel, you know that this was a description of paradise before the fall. The conditions of nature were different. You also see that the spilling of blood and eating of flesh was not brought on until after the fall.


_______________________________________________


<b>The scientific test the falsification test, of Mark, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 17 and 18.</b>


11- The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test which no Christian could ever pass.


"The evidences of the truth of the gospel are so full, that those who receive it not, may justly be upbraided with their unbelief. Our blessed Lord renewed his choice of the eleven as his apostles, and commissioned them to go into all the world, to preach his gospel to every creature. Only he that is a true Christian shall be saved through Christ. Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25. Doubtless this is a solemn declaration of that true faith which receives Christ in all his characters and offices, and for all the purposes of salvation, and which produces its right effect on the heart and life; not a mere assent, which is a dead faith, and cannot profit. The commission of Christ's ministers extends to every creature throughout the world, and the declarations of the gospel contain not only truths, encouragements, and precepts, but also most awful warnings. Observe what power the apostles should be endued with, for confirming the doctrine they were to preach. These were miracles to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it." - Matthew Henry


The apostles DID perform miracles in the name of Jesus Christ.


_____________________________________________________________


<b>The rainbow</b>


12- Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.9, Verse No.13 to 17, that… ‘After God, at the time of Noah submerged the world by flood, and after the flood’ subsided, He said… ‘I put up a rainbow in the sky as a promise to the humankind never to submerge the world again, by water. To the unscientific person it may be quite good… ‘Oh rainbow is a sign of Almighty God, never to submerge the world by flood again.’ But today we know very well, that rainbow is due to the refraction of sunlight, with rain or mist. Surely there must have been thousands of rainbows before the time of Noah, peace be upon him. To say it was not there before Noah’s time you have to assume that the law of refraction did not exist - which is unscientific.


It did not rain before Noah. Noah was the first time it rained. Before Noah a firmament was in the Heavens which gave water to the earth. We know this from the Creation account.


_____________________________________________________________


<b>POINT NUMBER THIRTEEN:</b>


Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy?


13- the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it.


You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin


POINT NUMBER FOURTEEN:


A woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a daughter, as compared to a son.


14- in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. It she give birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days. I would like anyone to explain to me scientifically, how come a woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a female child, as compared to a male child.


POINT NUMBER FIFTEEN:


How do you find out the bitter water test for adultery?


15- The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery, in the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31. I’ll just say in brief. It says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. Unscientific


Those are all OT laws. It is strange to us today for sure. Christ fullfilled the Law so that we don't have to anymore.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

OK...I got a lunch break real quick...


_______________________________________________________________


<b>"Light of the Moon is its own light.</b>


<b>6- the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have."</b>


I don't know that that is a contradiction to science at all. The moon does provide light in the night-time sky albeit from the reflection of the sun. We do have light during the night as a result of the moon's position.


_______________________________________________________________


<b>The heavens have got pillars</b>


8- the Bible says in Job, Ch. 26, Verse 11, that…‘The pillars of the Heaven will tremble.’ Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No.10, that…‘The Heavens are without any pillars - Don`t you see? Don’t you see the Heavens are without any pillars? - Bible says heaven have got pillars.


Uh...I guess you can assume that the Qur'an is correct on this issue. But who knows if the Heavens have pillars or not. Maybe the Qur'an is wrong and the bible is correct. The verse in Job is referring to Paradise and nobody has been there who has come back to tell us about it.


A footnote in my bible says the following:


"Not that heaven has pillars to uphold it, but he speaks by a similitude as though he would say heaven itself is not able to abide his reproach."


_______________________________________________________________


<b>9- Not only do the Heavens have got pillars - Bible says in the first book of Samuel, Ch. No.2 Verses No.8, as well as the book of Job Ch. No.9, Verse No.6, and the book of Psalms Ch. No.75, Verse No.3, that… ‘Even the earth have got pillars.’</b>


The farthest scientist have ever drilled into the earth's surface don't come close to revealing the nature of what is contained in the earth. Maybe we'll discover more the future to lend insight on what was meant here.


What He is doing is declaring the infirmity of man, by the mighty and incomprehensible power that is in God, showing what he could do if he would set forth his power. "Shaking Pillars" is a saying meaning to destroy, make tremble. God is the Creator and thus has dominon over His creation.


I don't know that either term "pillar" could be taken literally.


_______________________________________________


<b>God said… ‘You can have all plants and all vegetation, including the poisonous plants?’</b>


The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that… ‘God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.’ New International Version says… ‘The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.’ Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die.


Wel mel, you know that this was a description of paradise before the fall. The conditions of nature were different. You also see that the spilling of blood and eating of flesh was not brought on until after the fall.


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<b>The scientific test the falsification test, of Mark, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 17 and 18.</b>


11- The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test which no Christian could ever pass.


"The evidences of the truth of the gospel are so full, that those who receive it not, may justly be upbraided with their unbelief. Our blessed Lord renewed his choice of the eleven as his apostles, and commissioned them to go into all the world, to preach his gospel to every creature. Only he that is a true Christian shall be saved through Christ. Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25. Doubtless this is a solemn declaration of that true faith which receives Christ in all his characters and offices, and for all the purposes of salvation, and which produces its right effect on the heart and life; not a mere assent, which is a dead faith, and cannot profit. The commission of Christ's ministers extends to every creature throughout the world, and the declarations of the gospel contain not only truths, encouragements, and precepts, but also most awful warnings. Observe what power the apostles should be endued with, for confirming the doctrine they were to preach. These were miracles to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it." - Matthew Henry


The apostles DID perform miracles in the name of Jesus Christ.


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<b>The rainbow</b>


12- Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.9, Verse No.13 to 17, that… ‘After God, at the time of Noah submerged the world by flood, and after the flood’ subsided, He said… ‘I put up a rainbow in the sky as a promise to the humankind never to submerge the world again, by water. To the unscientific person it may be quite good… ‘Oh rainbow is a sign of Almighty God, never to submerge the world by flood again.’ But today we know very well, that rainbow is due to the refraction of sunlight, with rain or mist. Surely there must have been thousands of rainbows before the time of Noah, peace be upon him. To say it was not there before Noah’s time you have to assume that the law of refraction did not exist - which is unscientific.


It did not rain before Noah. Noah was the first time it rained. Before Noah a firmament was in the Heavens which gave water to the earth. We know this from the Creation account.


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<b>POINT NUMBER THIRTEEN:</b>


Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy?


13- the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it.


You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin


POINT NUMBER FOURTEEN:


A woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a daughter, as compared to a son.


14- in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. It she give birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days. I would like anyone to explain to me scientifically, how come a woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a female child, as compared to a male child.


POINT NUMBER FIFTEEN:


How do you find out the bitter water test for adultery?


15- The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery, in the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31. I’ll just say in brief. It says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. Unscientific


Those are all OT laws. It is strange to us today for sure. Christ fullfilled the Law so that we don't have to anymore.

Ok am not going to comment on your answers, although there are 4 or 5 points make no sense at all. However, until now you didn’t answer the part of creation which is to me and to other scientists is obvious error.


One error is sufficient to prove that the whole Bible is not God's word.


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Greetings. I intended to spend some time yesterday evening on your questions. However, I got home and found a small water stain on my ceiling. I went into my attic and found that the drainage pan for my air conditioner was stopped up. I cleared the line and fixed that part of it....then I went down stairs as was attempting to clean up the stain on the ceiling when all of a sudden about 25 square feet of drywall came crashing down on me covering me with wet attic insulation and filth...needless to say I spent my evening cleaning up that mess...

Wow… did your mother punish you for the mess. :lol:

I must work today. Hopefully I'll have time this evening to spend on the rest of your questions.
However. Know this...the Bible teaches us that Christ the creator created the earth. We learn throughout the Bible that many things are beyond human understanding. Christ showed that he had the ability to create earthly things with the appearance of age.

Could you please provide one plain verse that say JESUS IS OUR CREATOR, or JESUS IS THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH. I need plain English, hopefully in a direct way and not<i> metaphorically.</i>

For example in John 2 we read:
<b>John 2</b>


Jesus Changes Water to Wine

Is turning water to wine is great thing that would prove that Jesus is God the Creator? come on you should then believe that Moses is God for splitting the sea.

We both know that wine is fermented and it takes time, often dozens of years to have good win. Jesus made the wine in an instant and Lo it was Good Wine. The Creator has absolute authority of his creation and thus can make anything whether it be wine or the mountains with the appearance of age.
So. When you say, "It's illogical" I say, "No it isn't. God is all powerfull."

I don’t only say it is illogical but it is also <b>impossible</b> for anyone to believe that since Jesus turned water into wine, therefore he is the Creator God Almighty. That is impossible.

You may also tell me that it's illogical for Jesus to calm the storm, walk on water, raise people from the dead, heal blind people and forgive sins. However, He did all those things.

Yeah we believe too that he performed many miracles, some of his miracles you don’t even believe and you can’t imagine. But we Muslims believe. However, these miracles are not his own works. he himself said in the Bible <b>“ all power is given to me”</b> means the power is not his own, someone else more powerful has given him the power. But Jesus is not all powerful. even peter his closest diciples said <b>“ Jesus of Nazareth was a man approved by God with wonders, miracles and signs which GOD DID BY HIM
”</b> can you see CC, God did those miracles using Jesus. But Jesus did nothing. Even Jesus himself again said <b>“I of my ownself can do NOTHING”. </b> So all the miracles that he performed was the work of God Almighty, the real Creator. And NOT JESUS’.

Much of what God does is beyond human understanding. We are but saplings of intellect compared to His knowledge and authority over everything.

This we know already,. Miracles were off topic. We were talking about science. And the Creator should know about scientific issues of his creation.


I would like for you to comment on the creation problem and the mathematician mistake which I point earlier.


And one more thing: if Dr William Campbell himself declare that there are scientific problems in the Bible, why you are trying not to admit the same? Are you a scientist who have more knowledge than Dr Campbell or Dr Moor and wanted to share with us something new that they didn’t know? Both of them acknowledge the truth and accuracy of the Qur’anic statements and both of them acknowledge the errors in the Bible and yet they didn’t embrace Islam. Because Islam comes only through the guidance of the Creator, but one at least should not deny the truth when it is revealed to him.


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Wel Mel,


You said,


"One error is sufficient to prove that the whole Bible is not God's word."


Salam


Wael.


Ok. I can say the same thing about the Qur'an and completely dismiss it.


Do ants talk? Because the Qur'an says that Soloman talked to ants. To borrow a phrase of yours that is "unscientific."


You also said that 4-5 of my comments didn't make sense. I re-read them and they make sense to me. Don't know what to tell you about that.


Did you comment on the embryo problem? The evidence that the embryo knowledge was known and published before the Qur'an was written?

[Curious Christian]

Could you please provide one plain verse that say JESUS IS OUR CREATOR, or JESUS IS THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH. I need plain English, hopefully in a direct way and not<i> metaphorically.</i>

John 1


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.


<i>3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.</i> 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.


6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.<b> </b>


<i>10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.</i>


<i>14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.</i>


15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


Wow… did your mother punish you for the mess. :lol:

No...but my wife did. Now I have a massive air conditioning bill. Unlucky for me, I live in Texas, and it's really hot.