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Curious Christian · 05-19-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

Excellent point PUPPET. :mashaallah: :thumb:

Salam

Wael.

The mad mean butcher who pushes for free elections in the countries he plunders.... :)

wel_mel_2 · 05-19-2006, 09:30 PM

Bismillah:

Quote:The mad mean butcher who pushes for free elections in the countries he plunders.... :)

You know what? I think you better call yourself from now on as “American defensive” and not “Christian Curious” :P

Ah by the way.. Who told you that we need Bush to push any country for free election? Do we intervene in any matter decided by him? And who told you that his own election was fair anyway. :scratch:

Quote:You are not to be blind with patriotism, wrong is wrong. No matter who did it or says it.

Said malcolm X.
Salam

Wael.

Curious Christian · 05-20-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

You know what? I think you better call yourself from now on as “American defensive” and not “Christian Curious” :P

Ah by the way.. Who told you that we need Bush to push any country for free election? Do we intervene in any matter decided by him? And who told you that his own election was fair anyway. :scratch:

Said malcolm X.

Salam

Wael.

Some of you should change your user name to "Down with America" and "We Do Nothing Wrong" and "Only the Zionist are To Blame". Honestly...from reading posts by some I am starting to think that a major component of Islam is absolute hate for anything non-muslim and a complete denial that ANY of the blame could possibly fall on Muslims.

Obviously Muslims and Christians aren't getting along in many parts of the world. I think there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. Does anybody agree with me?

Faris Mee has said that it is the goal of America and Christians (he hasn't been able to seperate the two) to kill Muslims. That is ridiculous. We share very different world views and are currently at odds with one another.

In previous threads I've admitted wrong doing on by my side of the equation. As a Christian I believe that we humans are sinfull. After the fall in Genesis we were seperated from God. He is Holy and perfect and even our good works are dirty rags. Therefore Christ made the sacrifice so that we may have communion with God. BUT...we are still sinners. I have no doubt that my country has acted corruptly and unfairly in the past. Because my country is run by men and women who are sinners affected by the fall. I believe that it is only by Grace that there is ever any peace in the world because humans are fallen and fight one another without God's intercession.

I don't have any hate for any of you. We see the world from different point of views. I admit that I can often be wrong because Lord knows...I am NOT perfect. We see through a glass darkely. I hate violence as much as you. I want peace as much as you.

I think there is blame everywhere. On my side and yours. We should embrace what we have in common...Love for our families and cultures. I respect you can you respect me?

wel_mel_2 · 05-20-2006, 08:30 PM

Bismillah:

Quote:Some of you should change your user name to "Down with America" and "We Do Nothing Wrong" and "Only the Zionist are To Blame". Honestly...from reading posts by some I am starting to think that a major component of Islam is absolute hate for anything non-muslim and a complete denial that ANY of the blame could possibly fall on Muslims.

Obviously Muslims and Christians aren't getting along in many parts of the world. I think there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. Does anybody agree with me?

Faris Mee has said that it is the goal of America and Christians (he hasn't been able to seperate the two) to kill Muslims. That is ridiculous. We share very different world views and are currently at odds with one another.

In previous threads I've admitted wrong doing on by my side of the equation. As a Christian I believe that we humans are sinfull. After the fall in Genesis we were seperated from God. He is Holy and perfect and even our good works are dirty rags. Therefore Christ made the sacrifice so that we may have communion with God. BUT...we are still sinners. I have no doubt that my country has acted corruptly and unfairly in the past. Because my country is run by men and women who are sinners affected by the fall. I believe that it is only by Grace that there is ever any peace in the world because humans are fallen and fight one another without God's intercession.

I don't have any hate for any of you. We see the world from different point of views. I admit that I can often be wrong because Lord knows...I am NOT perfect. We see through a glass darkely. I hate violence as much as you. I want peace as much as you.

I think there is blame everywhere. On my side and yours. We should embrace what we have in common...Love for our families and cultures. I respect you can you respect me?

yes of course we do respect you and your beliefs. only we say our opinion and you should take it easy when listening to other people's opinions.

Salam

Wael.

***Muslimah*** · 05-22-2006, 01:13 PM

Bismillah

Quote:Some of you should change your user name to "Down with America" and "We Do Nothing Wrong" and "Only the Zionist are To Blame". Honestly...from reading posts by some I am starting to think that a major component of Islam is absolute hate for anything non-muslim and a complete denial that ANY of the blame could possibly fall on Muslims.

salam Curious

I m not sure how did u come to this conclusion when I actually on this same thread posted a hadeeth for u to ponder on. If u need help with it, just call in.

Just re read this hadeeth in particular, u will understand why this is happening around the Muslim world.

Again if u need help in terms of analysis. I do already have it insh aAllah will just post it.

Precisely post #4

re read it, take time, dont get surprised that the Messenger already foretold us and warned us against this.

Curious Christian · 05-22-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:Bismillah

Well as for why the Muslim Ummah is subjected to this, actually the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam did warn us against this and foretold us already. if u think about it, what is happening around the Muslim Ummah is not but a proof that the Messenger is the final Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam;

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Omar that the Messenger salla Allah a`alyhee wa sallam came to us saying O people of Muhajereen (immigrants) there are five issues if you will be inflicted with them and I seek refuge to Allah that you would not be available when they occur, never fornication would spread among people till they commit it publicly except that plague and other unprecedented diseases which was never experienced before among their predecessors would spread and prevail, food deficiency and unjust rulers, never people refrain from paying Zakat for their money except that they would be denied rain from sky and if it was not for animals they would have never received rain, never people violate the covenant of Allah and His Messenger except that Allah Sends on them an enemy from outside to take part of what is in their hands, and when their rulers don’t rule with the book of Allah and start selecting from what Allah revealed except that Allah instills their torture among them.” (reported by Ibn Majeh)

Ponder upon this hadeeth curious it will explain much

Help...what is a hadeeth?

Maybe it's the english translation, but what I am reading doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now. Could you possibly break it out and explain what this has to do with the present situation in Iran. I perceive that the "enemy from outside" is the US??

PUPPET · 05-23-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:Help...what is a hadeeth?

Maybe it's the english translation, but what I am reading doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now. Could you possibly break it out and explain what this has to do with the present situation in Iran. I perceive that the "enemy from outside" is the US??

Whats Hadeeth - Arabic word hadith. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved. His comments, his teachings, his insight , stuff he told us.

What this has to do with Iran, is the same thing it has to do with other area's muslims are suffering, or are going to suffer in:

aint qualified enuff to make comments on the Hadith, some peeps may read it out of context or get it twisted.

But it's discussing Disobeying Allah, living unislamically and the consequences.

***Muslimah*** · 05-23-2006, 07:35 PM

Bismillah

Salam Curious, awefully sorry for this puzzle I caused you. Not deliberate anyway. :)

But at least this is enough of a brain teaser for you to learn more about islam. After all, that is why u r on here, righ?

To start with, PUPPet did give u a brief answer. however, to also put it in a nutshell.

Hadeeth is what the companions of the Messenger Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him, conveyed to us of his sayings. Matter of fact, Islam is based on Quran ( you know that) and Sunnah. Sunnah is the compilation of hadeeth as we explained. It contains what to do, how to do, when to do in every given situation in our life, even in the most intimate matters of a human life.

Through the hadeeth we learn a lot. Just as this one I used here. Out of respect to your comment, that how can Muslims be so innocent and have nothing to do with what they go thru. You are right Curious.

1. Allah actually warned us saying:

"And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much. " (Quran 42:30)

Just by examining this Ayah (verse), you will realize that you were absolutely correct. What ever we suffer, it is actually owing to our wrong doing. Mind you, such suffering in islam has various conotations, let us not elaborate on them for now.

Be it on the personal level or global level (Muslims in general as one nation).

The above mentioned hadeeth explains a lot of what is happening now:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Omar that the Messenger salla Allah a`alyhee wa sallam came to us saying O people of Muhajereen (immigrants) there are five issues if you will be inflicted with them and I seek refuge to Allah that you would not be available when they occur,

1. never fornication would spread among people till they commit it publicly except that plague and other unprecedented diseases which was never experienced before among their predecessors would spread and prevail

Now u understand why HIV (AIDs) and cancer rate increased and even appeared.

2. never people
decrease the measure and scale
 except that they are inflicted with
food deficiency and unjust rulers
,



Can you see, the majority of Muslim rulers are a source of suffering for u. We complain about them, while they are not the disease, but rather a symptom. Having them indicates that Muslims are not observing proper measuring and scaling. Mind you, these two terms are not restricted on the purchase of items. But rather they actually extend to include what u may call as double standard. Saying the just word on the right time.



3. never people
refrain from paying Zakat
 (alms which is the 3rd pillar of islam) for their money except that they would be
denied rain
 from sky and if it was not for animals they would have never received rain,



4. never people
 violate the covenant of Allah and His Messenger
 except that Allah
Sends on them an enemy from outside to take part of what is in their hands
,



For the same reason I dont complain about US strikes and invasion of many Muslim countries taking their wealth. Again it is the fruit of violating the convenant of Allah and His Messenger.



5. and when
their leaders don’t rule with the book of Allah and start selecting from what Allah revealed
 except that
Allah instills their torture among them
.” (reported by Ibn Majeh)



Insh a Allah now u have a clearer picture.



As u can see, all what the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him warned us against, as suffering, did take place. It is of course unfortunate, we Muslims need to work hard on ourselves, we need to wake up, we need to look in the mirror and tell ourselves to improve. We need to face the truth.



So Curious you were right, but it is all told by the Messenger 1400 years ago, who does not speak out of desire. Prayer and peace be upon him and all Allah's Messengers and prophets.

Curious Christian · 05-24-2006, 01:57 AM

Muslimah,

Thanks for such a good and insightly answer. I too believe that "leaders" who stray from God's appointed path do harm to their citizens. May we pray for Godly and moral leaders all over the world.

***Muslimah*** · 05-24-2006, 06:51 PM

Bismillah

Alhamdulelah Curious, that I was of help and that u did get the idea.

Just to stress, not only the leaders, or rulers.

u can say, HIV is not but a symptom for the disease Muslims are inflicted with, food deficiency due to which we borrow and receive aid, is not but a symptom as well. The disease is wrong scaling... and so forth.

That is why on the personal basis, I dont complain about US attitude. They did take part of what is in our hands, because of our faults.

I rather lay emphasis on improving myself as well as invoking upon Allah to Improve Muslims and that we treat ourselves from such diseases.

The most important part is the situaiton is well explained by the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him, who precisely told the immigrants that Muslims will be inflicted with such diseases and thus will face such destiney.

May Allah Help us improve.

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