04-15-2006, 09:28 PM
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Salam Mahasvapna
Have you been through any episodes where fear is the active ingedient or catylyst for an enlightenment?
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My Journey Towards God.
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 Salam Mahasvapna Have you been through any episodes where fear is the active ingedient or catylyst for an enlightenment? 
04-16-2006, 06:43 PM
Quote: I have faced the <i>illusion</i> of fear many times. I believe I was only ever truly afraid of death - not so much of dying, but of the loss of the living of life. Maybe. I'm still dealing with it, by and by, as time goes, I fear it less and less. I have never met anyone who managed to give a convincing argument as to <i>why</i> fear should be a reason to seek Truth, or to be closer to God. I do both of these things simply because this path has heart. It makes me whole and content to do so. I believe that fear motivates those who need the motivating. namaste Mahasvsapna Quote:I have faced the <i>illusion</i> of fear many times. I believe I was only ever truly afraid of death - not so much of dying, but of the loss of the living of life. Maybe. I'm still dealing with it, by and by, as time goes, I fear it less and less. Salam Mahasvsapna So you have never experienced a situation where you have had the "Fear of God" in you? I don't mean as in a momentary lapse of reason, but an experience 'prolonged' where you knew it was a personal thing between you and Him?
04-16-2006, 11:42 PM
Quote: Hm. I am not sure, honestly. There is a prolonged sense of awe... perhaps a sense of smallness in the face of something immense. But, I wouldn't say that it is fear - not in the sense that I understand fear. perhaps I have had very little to fear in life, so I don't know as much about it as other feelings. I have some sense of fear of the things that God may have in store for me - I am sure my metal needs far more tempering to be perfect for what he wants of me... So in this sense I am somewhat fearful of perhaps what is necessary to further that process, but at the same time I have faith that I will be able to overcome it and that God will lead me to it. I suppose that I cannot say that I am afraid of God. I have faith in his guidance and his intentions. I think there is no need to fear a God who WANTS you to succeed. It is difficult for me to hold on to both faith and fear at once. So i would say that I do not know what you mean by prolonged 'fear'. But, it is possible that I know what you're talking about. This is how I see my relationship to God - so, what do you think? By your definition, do I have the fear of God in me? There is a saying that a good leader rules through respect and honor - and an evil leader governs through fear and domination. You may not agree, but I believe the world of Man expresses the Truth of God - that this is what we call the World, the Universe, Creation. So, I'm inclined to see such parallels. What do you think? What is the 'Fear of God' to you? namaste Mahasvapna
04-17-2006, 03:36 AM
Quote:I suppose that I cannot say that I am afraid of God. I have faith in his guidance and his intentions. I think there is no need to fear a God who WANTS you to succeed. It is difficult for me to hold on to both faith and fear at once. For me 'Fear of God' is a question that can be divided into two parts. Before and after Islam. Before my conversion fear was a conventional concept that motivates or immobilizes people, the 'norm' so to speak. Fear of death, life, loss e.g. income, possessions, love and so on. I did experience several periods of intense fear on my journey to find God. However I do not wish to expose myself in public as to the phobias I experienced. Needless to say however they were highly motivating in that my 'sense-of-self' was put into perspective. I continue to thank Allah (alhamdulillah) for my episodes of 'fear therapy'. I circled around, experiencing much but getting nowhere for all of seven years in my quest to find the secret of life; God. Don't get me wrong, I 'felt' Him during the trek but I wanted to find that 'pot of gold'. I knew it was out there, and as long as I kept a watch out for rainbows, it'd turn up. And sure enough, but in a most unexpected way. In all those seven years I never encountered "Allah" or "Islam" or "Muhammad" until the last minute. Well five minutes actually. One day, finally, I was introduced to the 'internet' and a thing called a search engine. I was told that what ever question you had you could find the answer to anything inside this little black rectangle. So that night I exitedly typed into the 'little black panel' my co-ordinents for God and pushed ENTER. To my surprise up came page after page after page of Islam and two links to "bible studies". "Islam?" I exclaimed to myself. What's that? I blindly clicked on a link for no particular reason and up came the Quran. First was a short prayer (I later learned it was Sura Fatihah). Then the Qur'an commenced; <i>"This is the Book, a guidance sure, for those who fear Allah, by guarding against evil." </i> And that was it. Seven years of 'research' condensed down to a five minute trip on the net. "Ah-ha!" I exclaimed. "At last. Found You!" So this takes us back to what you mentioned earlier; Quote:I suppose that I cannot say that I am afraid of God. I have faith in his guidance and his intentions. I think there is no need to fear a God who WANTS you to succeed. It is difficult for me to hold on to both faith and fear at once. The first sentence is your 'missing link'. The second is a 'blessing'. The third is a 'lack of knowledge'. The fourth is the 'secret to salvation'.
04-17-2006, 04:07 AM
Quote:And that was it. Seven years of 'research' condensed down to a five minute trip on the net. "Ah-ha!" I exclaimed. "At last. Found You!" Namaste, It does often take the right question at the right timing with the right resources. However, those is only an illustration of the scene of your conversion to Islam. It does not express an understanding of the need for a fear of God. Let me rephrase specifically then - What do you believe to be the most important reason to be instilled with the Fear of God? Perhaps a step beyond this might be to ask also, How do <i>you</i> maintain both fear and faith at once? Namaste Mahasvapna Quote:Namaste, The reason is because of the impending hour of Doom. When all creation will be rolled up and all that we understand to be existence will cease. Then The Day of Judgement will commence. Then those who are deserving of Hell will be thrown into it and that will be most of humanity. Then the few who surrendered to God and feared as they should will be admitted into Paradise. This is the second creation and will endure for eternity. But one cannot accept this without fear of God. And one cannot accept this unless Allah Himself wills for him to believe. And those who fear 'best' or 'most' are those of understanding. And this is gained through knowledge. And one maintains both fear and faith through knowledge and perserverance. And fear is gained by having a compliant heart. Those whose hearts are hardened against the reminder are lost souls. This has been the Way since Adam. The Laws of the Universe are constant. The order to fear God and obey the Messenger has been compulsory from messenger to messenger (peace be upon them all). Here's some verses from past books; Deu 4:10 ...when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Deu 6:13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. Deu 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul. Deu 10:20-21 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name. He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen. Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. Josh 24:14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 1 Sam 12:24 Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you. 2 Chron 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts. 2 Chron 19:9 And he charged them, saying, Thus shall ye do in the fear of the LORD, faithfully, and with a perfect heart. Psalms 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Heb 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. The opening address of the Qur'an: <i>"This is the Book, without doubt, a guidance sure, for those who fear Allah, by guarding against evil."</i> Paradise is not easy. It doesn't come cheap. Only the few will enter. And seeking the necessary knowledge to graduate is hard work. Remember when we were children and adolescents, study was disliked, it weighed heavy on our hearts. But it was good for us in the long run. And the same with when one turns one's thoughts to Hell and punishment and the wrath of God. The subject is too distasteful, too heavy on our hearts, its runs counter to our desires, so most turn away, seeking shelter from the subject. But for those who cower in fear at the thought of the power of The Lord, those are the fortunate. That's why those who strive will be rewarded with the Paradise. Mahasvapna, beware of your heart closing to this concept. No doubt its weight is heavy on your 'naffs' - (human desires, ego). This is a mountain we all have to climb. There is only one goal in this life; The pursuit of Allah's pleasure. And this is obtained by learning what He wants from us. I know and you possibly know that in the universe of the One who has created everything, nothing that occurs in his Realm is unintentional. Every miniscule happening is plotted. The co-ordinents of each and every atom is known from the moment before the universe began until after it passes away. And every one of our thoughts and those even more secret are known to Him. Nothing is hidden. You have not passed this way by chance. What you do with this opportunity is up to you. Our duty is only to plainly deliver the message.
04-17-2006, 09:01 PM
:bismillah: Quote:. There is a prolonged sense of awe... perhaps a sense of smallness in the face of something immense. But, I wouldn't say that it is fear - not in the sense that I understand fear. salam Mahasvpana, Your first statement is Sobhan Allah so expressive, true we are extremly small in face of something immense to an undescriable degree. The feeling u get when u read this expression is so true. however, let me tell u, although u didnt ask me how I fear Allah. Actually, the word fear in Islam is used in two senses. Matter of fact, a Muslim must always maintain a dual status towards Allah, it must be between hope and fear. Hoping for Allah 's Promised Mercy and pardon and fear of Allah's punishment. The other type of fear, is what is mentioned in the Ayah Faris quoted for u which is the beginning of the 2 chapter (Surah BAqarah). This fear as expressed in English is not exactly the fear we are talking about. If u want to tranlate it better which is Taqwa. The word Taqwa is derived from Ytaqi, this means to avoid, to stay away from, to protect one against more than fear. But because the arabic language is so However, let me tell u how I fear Allah, I fear that Allah Would See me or look at me while i doing something that does not Please Allah. Alhamdulelah Allah Allowed me to develop this sense of deep feeling of Allah's Presence at everytime. Usually this is what i tell people, if u think for one moment before u do or say anything, u would reconsider lest this would be the last thing before u meet Allah. Certainly no one likes to meet Allah. As for the protection part; , when I sing these words, in my heart they have begun to mean, "God protect me from the source of Doubt, from that which would divide or weaken my faith, from all will which is not yours." Perhaps there is deeper meaning, in fact there undoubtedly is. But this is a beginning, and one must know oneself if one would know God. Mash a Allah Glory be to Allah, that Allah Inspired u with those sources of evil that we need protection against. Mahavspna, I suggest that u keep using the supplication. Let me tell u more, I suggest also that u play from the same source I gave u Chapter 2 Surat Baqarah. Then sit in this place and pray to Allah, as I told u on that other thread, when u do so, pray to Allah and only Allah without focusing on any other entity. Pray deep and hard for guidance on evey matter. And I echo what my brother Faris said, and I did tell u this before, u didnt pass by here haphazarodly. Allah Willed for u. The more u sincerely pray the more u get close and get the truth Insh aAllah. soon Mahavspna
04-17-2006, 09:58 PM
Quote:This fear as expressed in English is not exactly the fear we are talking about. If u want to tranlate it better which is Taqwa. The word Taqwa is derived from Ytaqi, this means to avoid, to stay away from, to protect one against more than fear. But because the arabic language is so <b>(I don't know enough about the arabic language to know how this sentance was intended to end...)</b> Well, of course I fear the consequences of my actions and words which I might do without thinking... but this is part of the act of Mindfulness - to pay attention to what one says, thinks, or does. I think the only difference here is a misalignment of words. I think I understand what you mean - correct me if I have not interpreted properly - that one must know in one's heart that God will Judge one's actions, and should act correctly out of fear of this Judgement; you should not do what does not please God, because you must then fear the loss of his protection. As I said, I believe the difference is simply a misalignment of words. To me, philosophical 'Fear' - vs. emotional fear - is more like Aversion. Avert oneself from those things which do not please God, from the actions and words and intentions. In the face of these things, though, either in ourselves or the world, the reaction that I feel one should have is not fear, but courage, conviction, and purity of intention. No where in my understanding is there room for Fear. The reason for this is perhaps only that my vocabulary is more specific - certainly there are a lot of extra words in english in the first place. in the face of God, I feel humility - that is, a deep understanding (even in the emotional sense here) that God is vast, and that I can no more oppose his will than I could oppose my own. It is expressed necessarily through every thought or action. And so I feel humility (as opposed to my own definition of fear), under that which is the highest Authority, coupled with Faith that this Authority does not abuse me, but rather guides and enlightens me. I do not Fear Hell - not because I do not believe that there are negative consequences to our worldly actions; I do, but I also believe that we experience after this life the same pain and suffering that we put into the world. I have already discussed in, I think, a different thread my basic belief in reincarnation. I do not fear hell, because I have faith that by God's guidance I need not fear hell. I had thought that this was the meaning of Salvation. I have no fear that my soul will fall, because I have no intention of letting go of my faith. To be sure, there has been much to distract me, and much to try and hamper my faith. But, when such a thing happens, I simply remind myself that it was INTENDED to break my faith, and so I must face it down and protect my faith. I think that this is supposed to be a constant battle, and here enters my warrior's mentality. in the service of God, one must be a warrior. We are given armor - faith, hope, love, and those things which strengthen them - and we are given weapons - knowledge, wisdom, understanding, devotion - and with these things we must be ever vigilant against doubt, fear, hopelessness, and suffering. I use the word warrior, because it is an attack, it can harm you, and you must both defend yourself against it, and cut through it to it's source to stamp it out. if this business of the Fear of God is not aligned yet, then we must perhaps begin talking of it without using the word 'Fear' - I have found that by altering the way we express an idea, it's label or word, we can ellicit the true nature of the concept itself, free of labels and their restrictive boundaries. namaste Mahasvapna
04-18-2006, 08:29 PM
Quote:No where in my understanding is there room for Fear. The reason for this is perhaps only that my vocabulary is more specific - certainly there are a lot of extra words in english in the first place. Hi Mahasvapna Ponder over this please; <b>Allah coineth a similitude: A man in relation to whom are several part owners, quarrelling, and a man belonging wholly to one man. Are the two equal in similitude? Praise be to Allah! But most of them know not.</b>39:29 |
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