Is the Western non Muslim woman free???

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam all


I found this post on another board and is very interesting and true Mash a Allah,


sorry alliex if this will again make u sick


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con·cu·bine (n. 1. Law. A woman wo cohabits with a man.


2. In certain societies, such as imperial China, a woman contracted to a man as a secondary wife, often having few legal rights and low social status. [Middle English, from Old French, from Latin concubºna : com-, com- + cub³re, to lie down.


Every woman in the West begins her pre-adult life to be some one's girlfriend, sexually active in almost all cases. That leads to move in someone or some one moving in with her when she is about 18 years old, and usual life swapping meat goes on thereafter.


Half of the women are concubines of more than one man at the same time.

[reepicheep]

Muslimah wrote:


> Every woman in the West...


I am not surprised, of course, that you feel it necessary to repeatedly insult all non-Muslim women who live in western countries. But I am surprised that you seem to always include western Muslim women as an object of your disgust and loathing.


Wouldn't it be more accurate Islamically to say something like:


> Every woman in the West, except of course for all Western Muslim women who are without exception virtuous and never commit a sin...


That way, you would still be insulting women like my wife, my mother, my grandmothers, my sister, my daughters, etc., but you wouldn't be insulting the 300,000 Muslim woman who have Canadian citizenship.


Then again, perhaps I don't fully understand what the Koran says about Muslim women who live in non-Islamic societies. Do you believe that having Canadian citizenship turns Muslim women into cheap harlots and trollops (just like the rest of Canada's non-Muslim women), and that you think Canada's Muslim women are just as unspeakably vile, evil and immoral as all of Canada's non-Muslim women???

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam reepi


May be you are right in the way the posts are approaching the issue, btw this was never my trend. May be this post was a bit harsh. But let us face it reepi.


Let me talk to you from personal experience. Pls all dont be offended for I might need to use some sort of a bit open language.


At a stage of my life I worked with a jewish couple who were employed here in Egypt with one of the development foundation. Yes reepi jewish, they used to come to my house for food, so did I. I mean we had a close relation. we talked freely about many things, from social, religion to more.


Once the man was telling me how he has many single parent female friends, and how at one time they always needed his help to talk to their growing up daughters about how to have safe sex. Those girls were like 11 and 12. he was telling me, he used to play the male figure in their lives. He said, he used to start like you know now you are all grown up and so u might meet someone interesting and he moves to how to use condoms and all. He told me that they would respond O no, he added and probably they are already having it for a year. Iasked him how would he handle it when it comes to his own daughter? he said probably accept the fact.


I have more stories like this reepi. I know it might sound hard for you, but u also cannt deny this fact. you cannt deny that condoms are freely distributed in schools. right.


Truth sometimes hurt, but this is the truth.


The message I posted last was aiming into tackling the concubine part.


And no reepi, i never said that every western non Muslim woman is like this, but the majority are.

[Rock]

bismillah


sister Muslimah


I partially agree with you,I accept that freedom without limitations is not acceptable,this may let the society accept some wrong actions which we can`nt accept it as individuals,this actions may cause harm to the society .Actually evrey society put his rules to avoid this suituation.And I think that the islamic rules concerning the islamic dress protect the society from a lot of problems .


But I think that we as muslimes can`nt accuse all the non-muslimes women or the majorty of them saying that they are going wrong,We must avoid this accusation.Let us say that these socities permit doing wrong actions under the title of freedom.


Brother Reepi


You ask about what the Koran says about Muslim women who live in non-Islamic societies.


In islam every one is responsible for his actions,we must follow the islamic rules


what ever the societies rules are,it is our decision and no one will carry our faults.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Thank u Rock for putting things more clearly.


The problem is it is unlike me to go into this approach. We have a lot to say about Western societies, but we never do. Until our non muslim guests start pointing finger on how Muslims are this and that.


reepi one more thing just to settle this, by the way not all Muslim women living in the west abide by the Islamic rule. They sometimes get decieved with the so called freedom when in fact they become enslaved to so many items, figures...etc.

[alliex]

Bismilah,


I don't think the inttention here is to bag non muslims out. I think Muslims feel that western society is diffrent from an Islamic society. We may not agree on the same freedom issues. But not all western women are sleeping around etc. But mostly in the society it portrays that. I think Muslim's love every one and they can only hope the best for every one. So they are not judging just giving there opinion on what they see out side of the Islamic community.


Wasalam


Alliex

[Dan]

Bismillah


As Salam alaikum


I would agree that most Western women are not just sleeping with random strangers. I must add, though, that I do not know of one single woman of my peer group in my past or present who waited until marriage to have sex. I know of a girl who is still a virgin at 27 and is mocked by her friends behind her back for this fact. From my understanding, she is only a virgin because there has not been an opportunity not due to religious beliefs against premarital sex. From my peer group (notice that I keep using that frame of reference), anyone who is in any kind of somewhat serious relationship is having sex with that person. At my age, anyone who has been with a person for three or more months is most likely having sex with them. Many of my male friends would cheat on their girlfriends if they thought they could get away with it. Some did it even when they knew they would not get away with it.


It is difficult to deny one's sexuality when it is what is marketed. It is a manner by how Western people define themselves. Women want to look good in a bathing suit. So they can swim better? Men want ripped abs. So they can breathe better? A healthy level of bodyfat usually does not show really defined abs or super skinny legs, yet this is what is pursued. Usually in vain. Most of the people I know are unhappy with their body. This sounds like a lack of freedom to me, to have one's perception of self negatively affected by the media. Orgies are not happening in the streets but I do not know of anyone who is 100% satisfied with their physical appearance, no one. I include myself.


Just spouting.


As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam all


Jazakum Allah khairan katheeran Dan for putthing these facts, actually i was planning to put more, but then thought to keep quite.


May be this will sort of shed more light, the problem is that reepi felt so bad like I was accusing the western society with something that does not exist.


The issue is that the western society does not incriminate these acts, on the contrary, it is looked upon more than ok. I mean this is the norm. Just like in the Eastern society it is just the norm for females to remain virgin till marriage. Mind u the concept of virginity is totally different. I will not go into this, since this can really open matters in a way that i cannt handle.


For instance, two years ago I met this American revert here in Egypt, she had a marriage proposal from a Muslim. Her mother like freeked out on the phone for the idea of her marrying a Muslim. While she looks very ok about her other daughter living with her boyfried. When she learnt about her daughters reversion, the only issue she was concerned about that she will not be able to date.


Now such situaitons are ok in the west, we dont go around pointing fingers and telling you non muslims, how we perceive them. Unlike you who are constantly mocking Muslim women, just because they see things differently.


I have more, but I will leave it here.

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah


Assalamu alaikum


I got a good laugh from what brother Dan wrote,

Women want to look good in a bathing suit. So they can swim better

Good question [img]style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif[/img] do have in mind I have been there, I have lived there, I know exactly that it is very important to look nice in a bathing suit, no matter if you swim or not. BUT to tell you the other side of the coin, when you are sweating to look nice in it, you are totally unaware of what you are truly up to. You are not aware of, or do not ALLOW yourself to feel 'do I want this?' there is no time to think, only handle. It is some kind of unspoken words that one is met by, that oppresses you to look as good as possible. And the one's that do no fit into 'the picture' is easily swept away with a 'who do she think SHE is?'. This may be not a big part of life, but it is very much the same WITH clothes on. It is a circle of judgements and it is oppressive, but you do not notice it when you live in the middle of it. Only when you take a step outside you can see this pattern.

[alliex]

Bismilah,


JD you want to get us back on the topic are we free or not free??


What non muslim's do with theie life, all their decisions is there on choice. So they are free to do what they like. They can drive a car, go shopping, eat, play, socilise, take drugs, have sex, have relationships, have a job, wear what they want, have money etc.


The same goes for Muslim women. We can do all of the above if we choose to. Out religion does not limit us from these things. If we have sex and take drugs this is harram and Allah will certainly judge us on these things. But no one is going to stop us from doing these things accept us. If we are truly following Allah then we will stop these harram ways. (Maybe I should take some of my own advice!)


We are all free to do what we please. But we are all influenced in our decisions by the society we are in.


Wasalam Alliex