A discussion about Israel and Quran

[reepicheep]

Muslimah asked:


> U r quoting from the Quran and taking it an


> evidence for the establishment of Israel being


> a fulfillment of Allah's word, does this mean


> u admit the Quran is Allah's word???


Parts of the Koran (such as the prediction that the Jews will return to Israel) are in agreement with the bible. I agree with those parts of the Koran which are in agreement with the bible.


Rock asked:


> Last point,you mention the Israelian state


> established in 1947,can I understand that


> you consider the rest of palestine (about


> 50% of palestine) are occupied and the


> jew must return to 1947 border, I accept


> this as a start


Four times now, Arabs have started wars with Israel. And four times, the Arabs have lost the war and lost land in the process. Immediately after each war, the Arab nations have demanded the return of all land that they lost. Sorry, that's not the way things work.


If Israel had lost one of the wars, and after the war the Israelies had demanded the return of the border to the pre-war state, do you think the Arab nations would have agreed to this demand???


Israel has returned much of the land they captured (for example, the entire Sinai; the Gaza Strip which will be returned in a couple of weeks), but the decision to return the land is their decision alone. If the Arab nations wish to stop losing land, then they should stop declaring war on Israel.


I don't think we will ever see a return to the 1947 border. But I think we will eventually see a return to the 1949 border (which would mostly involve the return of the West Bank to Jordan).


Radiyah wrote:


> reepi stop translating The Quran to what u wish


Many Muslim scholars agree with me. For example, check out some of the writings of Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi:


Italian Muslim cleric defends Israel


Eternal capital of the Jews, a Muslim viewpoint

[Rock]

Reepi


It is better to lose your land than losing your humanity.Justice is the only way to keep us real human.


Is your religion or even the laws in your country gave you the right to steal the others because they are weak?


Is your religion or even the laws in your country gave the thief a right to fight the others defending what he thieved from them,and deny the same right for the owners because they are weak?


Is your religion or even the laws in your country gave the thief a right to keep or return back what he thieved?


You asked"If Israel had lost one of the wars, and after the war the Israelies had demanded the return of the border to the pre-war state, do you think the Arab nations would have agreed to this demand???"


The answer "yes,if the land is belong to them",but it is not.


For your information,Sinai is belong to Egypt and west bank is belong to Palestine not Jordan.


You said"I don't think we will ever see a return to the 1947 border. But I think we will eventually see a return to the 1949 border (which would mostly involve the return of the West Bank to Jordan)."


Yes,perhaps we will not see this return but I am sure our sons will see the return


to the 1946 border.Power is not a permanent status,return to the history.

[reepicheep]

Rock wrote:


> ...the answer "yes,if the land is belong to them",but it is not.


Do you reject the passages in the Koran which clearly state that Israel belongs to the Jews?

[Rock]

It is only clear for you reepi,I will read what you suggest to read but this will not


change the meaning of the Aya.

[Rock]

Again,jew does`nt mean Israel`s sons.

[radiyah]

Bismillah


La Hawla wala Gowata Ila Billah, Wallah this makes me laugh [img]style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img][img]style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif[/img] , really reepi, stop it, this is ridicilous, u are bringing us that palazzi opinion as if we are ignorant of it.


His statements and replies only represents the jewish opinions, he is an implant on islam.


It seems u do not want to understand or u do not read my posts, I am bringing u the translations of our elite specialized scholars, then u bring us this and u want to win your debate with us with such a personality. Who is he to talk on our behalf, muslims and arabs. I read those links of yours, and i could not finish reading, because it is really funny and ridicolous, because he is a big fat deciver, and the translations he is applying is totally wrong according to arabic language, and really we will be giving him importance that he does not deserve if we take his speech seriously. All I can say about him is that he is an implanted zionist to fight Islam and arabs with, his opinions reflect only the christian-jew opinion.


Now Reepi, if u came here to learn and want the true islam, u should accept what we are giving u, the information we are giving u here all my brothers and sisters is the correct one, according to Quran and Sunnah, and according to a long certified arabic and muslim histories, no matter how the anti islam groups or zionists try to do to distort true islam, they will not succeed. So it is either u accept what we are giving u as true source, or then stop trying to fight us with implanted personel on islam to win your debate. Read what we are writing u and be sure that we do not put anything here until by will of Allah that it is from a certified scholar, and is the truth, and if u read my posts and my brothers and sisters as will with an open heart then u will understand what is true islam. But then on the other side if u r implanted also here, which only Allah(SWT) knows, I would like to assure u that u will not succeed in your goal. [img]style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] .


Peace

[reepicheep]

radiyah wrote:


> u are bringing us that palazzi opinion as if we


> are ignorant of it. His statements and replies


> only represents the jewish opinions, he is an


> implant on islam...


>


> ...he is an implanted zionist to fight Islam and


> arabs with, his opinions reflect only the


> christian-jew opinion.


Very bravely spoken, Radiyah.


You have accused Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi of not being a Muslim, even though he claims he is one. I'm sure you know the consequences of your words, if you are wrong.


I checked out the background of Professor Palazzi. He claims to have "a Ph.D in Islamic Sciences issued by decree of the Grand Mufti of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia". Personally, I would not be brave enough to accuse this man of not being a Muslim.

[radiyah]

Bismillah


I am not accusing any1, only Allah knows what is in his heart, but when he translates The Quran according to what the Jews and christians want, and not according to well known scholars of islam, then he is an implant, and when u bring one scholar to us telling us many scholars say, u want us to leave what the group of scholars say and follow one who is deviated from the truth translating The Holy Quran according to his own whims. I know what I am saying and all of my brothers and sisters know what I am saying, what that man wrote and his translations of The Quran is all false. And him studying in Saudi Arabia does not make him the most knowledgable scholar in the world.


There are many deviated sects in Islam such as sufi's, Qadyani's, and ahmadiy'as group who studied in Saudi Arabia then deviated from the truth, some of them claiming to be prophets [img]style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img], and they also translated The Holy Quran according to their own whims.


So u better watch out what u r accusing me of, because I know exactly what I am talking about, Alhamdulilah Allah gave me and my brothers and sisters enough Ilm(KNOWLEDGE) to know who is a good scholar and who is not. I am not claiming to be a scholar, Astaghfer Allah, but we know who are the good and respectful scholars are. Now if he is a muslim or not Allah Knows best, I did not accuse him of Kufr, there are many implanted muslim spies between us who are not good muslims, I have no right to say about them that they are kuffar only Allah knows. Even u or any christian or jew I have no right to say in your face that u r kaffir, because only Allah knows what is in the heart of His slaves, and maybe one day any of u may turn to islam, only Allah(SWT) knows, there are many christians who embraced islam in secret becasue they are afraid to be tortured and killed, in some countries, and I will not name it. there is a hindu collegue of mine who secretly embraced islam, he is an old man if his family knows then they will kill him, that is what he told me. So if u think by such statement u r wining the debate [img]style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif[/img] forget it. And I guess it is time that u listen to true scholars of islam, and to what we are explaining to u, and not only one palazi who is deviated, and pleases your whims.[img]style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] .


Peace

[Muslimah]

Rock wrote:
> we need them to end the Israelian occupation


I assume by "Israelian occupation" you are referring to the state of Israel.  If so, then please be advised that, in the Koran, Allah (swt) clearly promises Israel to the Jews.  The land belongs to them:


Apparently, the phrase "we will gather you together in a mingled crowd" is a reference to the establishment of a Jewish homeland (i.e., the founding of the State of Israel in 1947).  If so, then Allah (swt) clearly wants Israel to exist as a homeland for the Jews.


Perhaps the root cause of all the problems Muslims are currently experiencing, is that Muslims are going against the will of Allah (swt) by refusing to recognize the right of Israel to exist.

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Bismillah


reepi, I need to clarify something for you, first which translation of the meanings do u use?


And thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, We will gather you together in a mingled crowd. (Koran, Sura 17:104, "The Night Journey")


let me give u another translation of the meaningL


<b>
</b>


"And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ [Jesus, son of Mary on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations)."


As u can see the word promised in not included in the translation I gave u which is from www.quran.nu


so is the text in Arabic. the ayah in arabic does not say "Ard maouda" maouda in arabic is promised. The promised issue is inveted by the jews to verify their deeds.


However, Allah in another position called it the holy land not the promised land.


I think now things are clear to u.

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Sister Muslimah, he brings his translation from that italian palazi scholar, whom I read his translations, and found his home page, and he translaated the Quran according to what pleases jews and christians, making muslims the weak relegion that should never take his right accusing arab scholars of being ignorant and so on. This scholar now is the best among the best scholars of islam because he is a friend of Israel, even on one israeli article he is called the zionist scholar, so what else do we need [img]style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] . I think it is enough, it is either reepi is not happy with our translations because it does not suite him, or well only Allah knows what his real intentions. So I think if he is not convinced let him just leave us with our relegion in peace.


salam