WHO BOMBED LONDON.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


O btw Andy, search for something called Lavon. A jewish movement was indulged in some aggressive attacks against British troops in Egypt. Just search for this.

[Andysand]

I suppose Islam is blamed because it is in the name of Islam that the some of largest terrorist attacks in world history have been carried out. The way these attacks are carried out.....by that, I mean the scale and the targets of civilians....are very shocking to the most of the world. We are trying to understand how a strong belief in a religion can lead to mass murder when religion is supposed to be about moral values and peace.


I think people are beggining to learn that it is a distortion of Islam that guides terrorism but it is a hard lesson to learn when so often the words 'Islam' and 'Murder' occur together in the news. The fact that many if not most Islamic countries are so unstable does not help.


Andy

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Andy u still didnt answer my main point, why the pope wasnt compelled to issue a condmning statement?


This is all our fault.

[Universist]

Muslimah
The issue is that this is recurrent. Always Islam must be blamed. But the best thing is that at such cases, non muslims come up and bring Ayahs' of Qital as a proof to the wrong act, they even compare the incidents to the Sunnah and usually come up with correct info.

Think about this from the perspective of an Infidel. A kafir. A kafur.


Allah says:


002.006


YUSUFALI: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.


PICKTHAL: As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.


SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.


002.007


YUSUFALI: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).


PICKTHAL: Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.


SHAKIR: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.


According to these surrah's any who disbelieve do so because of Allah.


And their penalty shall be great.


Any non-believer who would read this would immediately see that there is a great penalty for not believing. And then young Islamic men blow themselves up and kill not only innocent men and women, but innocent Muslim women. And so when kafir turn to the Qur'an to try to understand why. Here in plain view is the truth straight from Allah .


And it is from this perspective that you can see that Islam is blamed for inciting muslims to act in the name of Allah. Right or wrong. This is why.


With respect...


Universist


<b>I had to remove Pups since when we mention the name of Allah we say Glory be to Allah
</b>

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Peace universist


First off let me welcome u on board, however I really need to remind u that since u chose willingly to be on an Islamic board I am afraid that u have to abide by the rules.


Pls read the rules carefully before posting.


I will have to edit your first post I hope I dont have to do this quite frequently


As for your post Insh a Allah I will reply to it later. Now I am busy editing yours

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Peace again Universist


Thank u so much for brining this point, if it proves anything it proves much confusion in understanding the Ayahs of Quran.


Universist, when Allah may He be Glorified warns the infidels (Kufar) through the Quran of a great penalty. It is Allah Who Is going to apply this penalty. It not for any human being, regardless of the rank or position to apply a punishment except those mentioned in Quran for crimes. Such as head chopping for murder, hand chopping for stealing and so forth. Other than that not a single Muslim is entitled by virtue of Quran to apply again I stress apply the pentalty set forth by Allah for being a kafir. Of course there are much wisdom behind this, but one of the aspects, if a Muslim decides to kill a kafir just because the latter is a kafir, how can this Muslim guarantee that this kafir if lived only 24 hourse more shall not turn to Islam?


To conclude Universist the penalty Allah Is Brining in this Ayah shall be applied by Allah in the Day After. Matter of fact, if u just think for a while and even read up Andy's post, countries of Kufar are enjoying a remarkable position, if a penalty is applied in this world, the situation would have differed.


Right [img]style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]


Once again welcome to our board.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Peace Universist


Ok let me continue, just to explain this point more


To rephrase or actually be brief:


A Muslim is not allowed to kill anyone without a valid reason.


Crime penalties are only applied by those in charge not any common person.


A non Muslim is entitled for security as long as he/she didnt fight the Muslims.


Only in cases of fighting to defend Muslim souls or land we are allowed to kill non Muslims.


Other wise no


Penalty of being a kafir shall be only applied by Allah in the Day After.

[Universist]

Bismillah
Peace Universist


Ok let me continue, just to explain this point more


To rephrase or actually be brief:


A Muslim is not allowed to kill anyone without a valid reason.


Crime penalties are only applied by those in charge not any common person.


A non Muslim is entitled for security as long as he/she didnt fight the Muslims.


Only in cases of fighting to defend Muslim souls or land we are allowed to kill non Muslims.


Other wise no


Penalty of being a kafir shall be only applied by Allah in the Day After.

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Very good. I believe this interpretation is correct. My only point being that if a kafir reads the ayah's I presented, it is very easy to misconstrue the meaning. As I have and as you have corrected.


That being said, I hope that you can see that if one only reads the Qur'an without the guidance of a enlightened teacher as a guide, it is very easy to misconstrue the direct translations of the word.


And more importantly, if one chooses to fundamentally adhere to the literal words themselves such as the fundamenatalist Bin Laden has chosen to do, then there can indeed be in thier estimation a justified taking of kafir life by thier hands.


Which is precisely what they do.


And more importantly I have learned only today that one of the four bombers in London was a recent convert to Islam. Both he and his wife. And I ask myself if it is possible that like matches, when handled in the wrong manner, does not the very wording found in the Qur'an lend itself to bad acts?


Does not the Bible and the Torah also suffer similar misinterpretation by zealots, and ultimately terrorist.


I am still waiting to see the true muslim community stand together in solidarity and reject the terrorist, Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda followers. Some have, but others of significant scholarly position still cling to a past which condems them to an uncertain future.


A truly peaceful religion would utterly and completely reject suicide bombers, car bombers, airplane bombers, and any other form of terrorism concocted to kill any human being.


peae /= war


See: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...rrorism_stance/


JUDEA PEARL


Islam's new terrorism stance


By Judea Pearl | July 18, 2005


THE HORRIBLE bombing attacks in London overshadowed an important conference in Amman, Jordan, where as many as 170 Muslim scholars from 40 countries came to define ''The Reality of Islam and its Role in the Contemporary Society."


Participants represented all segments of Muslim society, and the conference aimed to shape a unified stance toward the great challenges of contemporary society -- reforms, human rights, minorities, women, and, of course, terrorism.


The first day of deliberation, July 4, revealed some of the difficult problems Muslims face in the post 9/11 era. Addressing the issue of terrorism, Jordan's King Abdullah stressed that Muslims are obliged to correct the tarnished image of Islam, unite in confronting extremism, and ''present to the world the true essence of Islam."


''The acts of violence and terrorism carried out by certain extremist groups in the name of Islam are utterly contradictory to the principles and ideology of Islam," the king said. ''Such acts give non-Muslims excuses to attack Islam and interfere in the affairs of Muslim peoples."


Paradoxically, participant Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the influential Qatar cleric who has called for the killing of American civilians in Iraq and women and children in Israel, resorted to conspiratorial logic and blamed ''injustices done to Muslims by the West" as a reason for the growth of Muslim extremism.


The historical roles of royalty versus priesthood seem to have switched around in Amman, with the king pressing for principled moral imperatives while the sheik is opting for political excuses. Evidently, Qaradawi believes that the ''true and peaceful image of Islam" will surface on its own, and that bin Laden's ideology need not be censored by religious red lines, impervious to political grievances.


This noncommittal stance of Muslim clerics toward terrorism has long been a major contributor to the tarnished image of Islam, baffling Muslims and non-Muslims alike. In an article last year, Sa'd Bin Tefla, a journalist and former Kuwaiti minister of information, recalled the fatwa (religious edict) issued against Salman Rushdie for his book ''Satanic Verses": ''Despite the fact that bin Laden murdered thousands of innocents in the name of our religion and despite the damage that he has caused to Muslims everywhere, . . . to this date not a single fatwa has been issued calling for the killing of bin Laden."


Bin Tefla's observation is no longer valid. On March 11, 2005, commemorating the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, the Spanish Muslim Council issued a fatwa against bin Laden, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the Al Qaeda leader.


This unprecedented move has generated expectations that those acting ''contrary to the principles and ideology of Islam" (using the words of King Abdullah) would also be recognized as apostates and sinners against God, and that using the Islamic instruments of fatwa, apostasy, and fasad (corruption) Muslims would be able to disassociate themselves from those who hijacked their religion.


Unfortunately, the realization of these expectations will need to wait for a brave new leadership to emerge. The final communique of the Amman conference, issued July 6, states explicitly: ''It is not possible to declare as apostates any group of Muslims who believes in Allah the Mighty and Sublime and His Messenger (may Peace and Blessings be upon him) and the pillars of faith, and respects the pillars of Islam and does not deny any necessary article of religion."


In other words, belief in basic tenets of faith provides an immutable protection from charges of apostasy; anti-Islamic behavior, including the advocacy of mass murder in the name of religion, cannot remove that protection. Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi, and the murderers of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg will remain bona fide members of the Muslim faith, as long as they do not explicitly renounce it.


Moreover, issuing a fatwa will become more regimented. ''No one may issue a fatwa without the requisite personal qualifications which each school of jurisprudence defines. No one may issue a fatwa without adhering to the methodology of the schools of jurisprudence," says the final communique.


True, this edict will prevent bin Laden from issuing fatwas against the West, but it may also discourage fatwas like the one issued by the Spanish Muslim Council which aim at discrediting bin Laden and bringing him to justice.


Judea Pearl is president of the Daniel Pearl Foundation, an organization promoting intercultural dialogue named after his son, a Wall Street Journal reporter who was murdered in Pakistan in 2002.

[muhseen]

Thank you for your welcomes.
I am looking forward to discussing many things with you.


Andy

<a></a>19380[/snapback]

welcome and enjoy your stay here....

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Andy & Universist, welcome to the forum. Hope u will like your stay.


I think that london bombings is a very complicated matter, we must wait and c what the final invistigations will come with, the only problem is what Andy mentioned, the fear in the heart of the british, and the muslims who feel they are convicted.


may Allah clear this matter, and many others and the truth is revealed.


peace