Disbelievers Can Not Become Muslims!

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


this is what I tried to explain, no it is not Allah's Plan yes He is the best planner, but for example saying that Allah already Made a decision for someone not to accept Islam, then it implies that Allah Is using double standard (astghafer ullah0. In other words Allah Picks those who will be saved versus the others.


But Shauneed dearest if u look at this Ayah:


"Truly, We did offer Al­Amanah (the trust or moral responsibility or honesty and all the duties which Allah has ordained) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they declined to bear it and were afraid of it (i.e. afraid of Allah's Torment). But man bore it. Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its results)." (Quran 33:72)


Let me give u an example from our daily life usually I prefer to talk about this issue without many Quran Ayahs.


You have a 4 old child who enjoys playing with electricity when he/she found out how to take off the safety plugs. He she enjoys taking them off and putting the finger in the socket. Now u were there, and he/she was heading towards one of them. u told him/her I know u r going to put your finger in the plug and if u do I will punish u. Now he /she continues towards the plug and puts his/her finger there. U certainly punish him/her. Now did u make him /her do that? no it was his/her choice although knew ahead what was waiting. u knowing is different. u know because of your experience and wisdom. Just relate this and compare this with Allah's Wisdom and knowledge.


And this is my understanding may Allah forgive me if I am wrong, but if u say that Allah Made the decsision ahead then what is the purpose of Jannah and Juhanam? yes Allah Say in Quran yahdi man yasha- a it means Allah Guides yes but when He finds that one wants to, when one strives to, like u did Shaunee u did strive to understand. Sobhan Allah today accidently I read a post by u in 2003, u were still searching.


So yes u wanted to, u were sincere about it Allah Helped u. But since Allah Does not need anyone why would He force any one?


Hope I helped here I know it is difficult. It took me quite sometime to get there. Originally I believed that Allah Is just and will never apply unjust in any way.


Sorry for a long post but ...

[Muslimah]

Shaunee


Look at my last post on this thread Insh a Allah it helps

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


With the risk of repeating - will also have a go!


Like sister Muslimah says, if we have in mind that when this life is gone by, there will be two places to stay in, Paradise or Hell. If we focus on that, then we have to do something during this life, if we are interested in staying in Paradise.


That means we have to take RESPONSIBILITY for HOW we live this life. If we were not GIVEN this responsibility by Allah, SWT, then what would be the purpose of Paradise or Hell? So He has given us this responsibility/possibility to carefully take care of our actions and doings, here and now.


BUT since Allah, SWT is All-Knowing He already KNOWS what choices we will make and where we will end up. HE knows that, but He gives us the freedom along the way to take ourselves there.


But to say that He KNOW is not the same as to say that it is HE that tells us what we shall do in every move we do. We have to do these mistakes or right choices ourselves. But still He KNOWS what we will do.


He, since He is the All-Knowing, He knows our fate, and it is we ourselves that takes us there.


"My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
The Qur'an 21:4


Wasalam

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Al-salam 'alaykom wa rahmat Allah, masha'Allah I really enjoyed reading this post and the response of my brothers and sisters, I have something here to answer shaunees wonders, I was taught by our scholar that there are two kind of destiney's written for a human being:


1- Held destiny ( Qada' Mu'alaq)


2- Final Destiny ( Qada' Mubram)


The held destiny is the one that is written in each human's book that is held by the angels of his deeds, and what is his destiny, for instance it is written in a book of a human that he is to die at fifty and during that life he did not do any good deed. But then what happens, when the time comes for the man to die Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala does not give order to take away his soul. WHY?


Because it is written in the final destiny, if the human chose the right path before the held destiny that is written for him, then it will be changed to the final destiny according to HIS/HER choosing. Then that human will live as long as 80 or 90 all in good deeds and in obeying Allah and his last 50 years of disobediencc or non beleiving will be erased. It is as simple as that. Let's say for example, u have files on the pc to be deleted or saved, then that little window will come asking " are u sure u want to delete ? then YES or NO, then who preses on that button Shunee, who is the one who uses his head to say yes or no. If u use no u lost everything, if u use yes then u saved everything, It is u or me or any1 who desides, then it is your decesion to save or delete and it is your decision to beleive or not. So your final destiny weather Heaven or Hell depends on u or any human being. And if u say that Allah already knows, yes He Knows becasue He created us and He will know what u will chose and what u will not , He is The All-Knower as our sisters said before.


Bismillah Al- Rahman Al-Raheem:


13. And whether you keep your talk secret or disclose it, verily, He is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).



14. Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves) All-Aware (of everything). 67,Surat Al-Mulk


Also one last thing. U say if Allah already knows our destiny and what we are going to be, why we bother, then I will ask u do U know what is going to happen to u tommorrow or what destiny is chosen for u? no u dont so u just dont sit like a pessimist saying it is written for me, but u have to work hard and chose it and think rationally that it is according to our choice that we will move from the Held Destiny to The Final Destiny, so which button is it going to be.


I hope this is cleared for u Shaunee, and I hope that Martini will return to Islam after he understands it correctly as brother Deen explained masha'Allah. And brother Anya Masha'Allah I c a lot of progress. May Allah guide us to what He Loves and Pleases.


Wasalam 'alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah

[Dan]

Bismillah


As Salam alaikum


I would like to jump in here and may Allah Forgive me if I misspeak.


The most easy answer that I found for myself when it comes to predestination is do I feel like I have free will? Right now, can I not give money in charity or punch some random person in the face? I feel that I could do either. Does this not reveal that the ultimate decision rests with us in our choice of deeds?


I also must remember when I get confused that this is one of the ways in which shaytan works. He tries to get us to reflect upon the essense of Allah instead of the Names and Attributes He has Given us in order to understand Him. Why can I not understand everything about Allah and His Will? Because I am limited in not only my knowledge but my perception. Allah Created both space and time and as such is not bound by these limits. For me, knowledge exists in two states, not having knowledge and having knowledge. There is both a time and a place where I do not have a certain piece of information or knowledge. I am then taught or understand something and I then have knowledge of that piece of information. Allah does not function in this manner. There is never a time or a place that Allah does not know what is happening due to the very fact that He is not limited as we are.


Insha'Allah I made some sense. If not, it is only due to my lacking.


As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Alsalam 'alaykom

I also must remember when I get confused that this is one of the ways in which shaytan works. He tries to get us to reflect upon the essense of Allah instead of the Names and Attributes He has Given us in order to understand Him. Why can I not understand everything about Allah and His Will? Because I am limited in not only my knowledge but my perception. Allah Created both space and time and as such is not bound by these limits. For me, knowledge exists in two states, not having knowledge and having knowledge. There is both a time and a place where I do not have a certain piece of information or knowledge.

This is very true, and yes it is shaytan who lets doubts crawl into our brains, so we should be strong enough to fight him.


And I would like to add something here also to what martini said that the hearts are sealed, they are sealed because of our own deeds, look at this verse in The Holy Quran


Bismillah


14. Nay! But on their hearts is the Rân (covering of sins and evil deeds) which they used to earn.
83, Surat Al-Mutafefeen


This Ran is a covering that is produced over the heart due to the sins and evil done by the human being so when he insists on his evil deeds that covering thickins until the heart is sealed and when the heart is sealed everything else is sealed with it, your hearing and your sight.


The Role of the heart:



Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said “ In the human body there is one organ if it is wholesome the body will be wholesome and if it is diseased the body will be diseased. Surely it is the heart”


No doubt, the heart is like the King who reigns and rules over the entire body. if the heart is physically and spiritually wholesome all the other organs would react positively.


But if it is physically diseased, all the other organs would be affected e.g the lungs would be filled with water and malfunction, the liver swells, the kidneys fail and the body as a whole would be debilitated. <i>by Dr Khaled Al-Jubeir, cardiac consultant surgeon for Prince Sultan Cardiac Center of Riyadh.</i> I heared a tape for Dr. Al-jubair, describing the hearts of dead people, some hearts are very black and others very redish and pinkish, and who will know why the condition of the heart is like this except a pious Doctor, and also he sees their condition before dying.


I hope this also added and cleared some confusion. May Allah accept from us all


Wasalam 'alaykom wa Rahmat Allah

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


first off welcome back Radiyah


Dan I think Mash a Allah u made a very simple, logical and easy explanation which I find useful in such matters. In such matters which are already complicated we need to address it in a simple format.


where is wandering Shaunee hope she is alright with all that if not let us know


And Shaunee sorry for forgetting to post the link may be it is old age


here is the link I wanted u to look at:


http://www.islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=80


see the last post there... sorry about that

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Thanku Sister Muslimah

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


u r welcome Radiyah we missed your informative comprehensive replies Jazaki Allah khairan

[Kareem_Rasheed]

As salamu aleiykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh !


All I am going to say As a New Muslim is that if non believers cannot become Muslim, then I would not have become a believer.


Also if No non believer could Ever become Muslim, then that would by itself alone mean that Muhammed(pbuh) and all Arab people that were pagans that lived at the time of Muhammed(pbuh) and after him could not have become Muslim just because they were originally unbelievers and that would also Include non Arabs too like the Persians,Jordanians,Egyptians and others.Which is not true.


Was-salamu!