Transmission Of The Qur'anic Revelation

[laian]

To Reepicheep:

My understanding of Islam is that Muslims believe that the Earth was created in 6 days. So, that can't be the "fault" which you disagree with. That leaves only the last part of your sentence ("rested on the 7th"). That must be the faulty dogma you are referring to, right?

Here's how my friend explained this to me a long time ago. I thought it was great:


Humans have bodies that use fuel, run out of energy and need rest and sleep.


God is not a human. He doesn't take coffee breaks.

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Sister Laian, I agree with you, , then I will be only pleased if sister Muslimah wipes it off. I am not that knowableable about sufism, I did not notice anything strange in what I read and then quoted. Maybe I can be enlightened what sufism is? Maybe a brother or a sister can start a thread to tell about this, so I know what to avoid in future, insha'Allah.


And I do agree, as a monotheist there IS only one God. Allah, SWT. BUT the 'picture' of Him may be different between the three monotheistic faiths. As a Muslimah I do believe what Islam teaches, that is the only picture of Him that makes SENSE, that Allah, SWT is as described in Islam. And nothing else. But still whatever attributes OTHER monotheists who are NOT Muslims give Him are THEIR understanding of Him. And they did not learn this from HIM, that I am also convinced of.


The following from the Qur'an and the translation of Yusufali


''If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to Allah, they are indeed unjust wrong-doers.''
3:94


''Do they indeed ascribe to Him as partners things that can create nothing, but are themselves created?''
7:191


"See ye what things Allah hath sent down to you for sustenance? Yet ye hold forbidden some things thereof and (some things) lawful." Say: "Hath Allah indeed permitted you, or do ye invent (things) to attribute to Allah?"
10:59


''If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!''
21:22


''No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah! (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him!''
23:91


''Those who had been despised will say to the arrogant ones: "Nay! it was a plot (of yours) by day and by night: Behold! Ye (constantly) ordered us to be ungrateful to Allah and to attribute equals to Him!" They will declare (their) repentance when they see the Penalty: We shall put yokes on the necks of the Unbelievers: It would only be a requital for their (ill) Deeds.''
34:33


''Glory to Allah! (He is free) from the things they ascribe (to Him)!''
37:159


''No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!''
39:15


''Yet they attribute to some of His servants a share with Him (in his godhead)! truly is man a blasphemous ingrate avowed!''
43:15


''Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.''
59:23

[laian]

Assalamu alaikum Umm Zachariah,


JazakAllah khair sister for your post. I didn't have time to put all those Ayah's, thanks for putting them. I agree with you really, about the Christians who attribute other things to Allah, they most certainly did not learn that from Allah, it was all made up in the minds of men, subhanAllah.


Also, I am glad you understand what I was talking about, all the Christians and Jews started out believing in Allah, and then they started adding or changing things, but they never stopped believing in God.


You are right, the "picture" of Him is different among all the faiths. It's so sad sort of, because they are so close to being on the right way, they just need to realize what monotheism really is.


Also about the site, I didn't see anything wrong with what you quoted either. I read most of that article and I didn't see anything strange. But like you, I don't know much about the sufis, so I don't know if that stuff supports their view or not.

[Anyabwile]

As for Ronni, ya maybe I'm wrong, but the way I see it when she  gets "sarcastic" as you call it, it just seems like shes getting on the defensive side, and rightly so, because there's so much information from Islam and against Christianity being thrown at her.

Erm...erm....this is an Islamic forum. So Lailan, if a Christian comes here with comments against Islam. Then...they are going to hear things they may not like about Christianity. You say "rightly so" she acts as she does...then why come here in the first place? Sorry i just don't understand your logic. Have you been chilling out with an unusually high number of Christians lately?? you're dropping some of the most Bizarre postings i've seen from a Muslim for a while on here. You're not one of the "misguided" Muslims are ya? You know from the funny groups? Genuine question.

To Muslimah.... ummm... I'm not sure exactly what God you think the Christians believe in, but let me assure you it is the same God that the Muslims believe in. They just happen to attribute a son to him. Read the Qur'an -- it talks about it countless times, how they have wrongly attributed a son to Allah. If they don't even believe in Allah, how can they attribute anything to him?

I know Muslimah will cover this but where i think your error is Lailan is simply saying "They just happen to attribute a son to him" No, they claim he is present in three forms, but then he is at the same time one form. This is not the same God i belive in. They are <i>supposed</i> to belive in the same God we belive in sure. Back at the time of revelation more did i am sure, but not these days. I don't know who this father is, who has a son and a holy spirit beside him who are equal. This is what Christians say, they are all equal and the same. If God has three equals what kind of God is this? Not my one.

Also, just about every muslim I've ever talked to about Islam, both before and after I took shahada, agreed that it is part of faith to show respect to the people of the book, namely the Jews and Christians. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them. Just be respectful.

Well it's part of faith to show respect to anyone not just people of the book. No one has ever told me to single those two out as we know them to be today and show more respect. I find todays Christians and others like them Blasphemous personally. I think you're living in the early Biblical times sister, i don't know who these cousin like Christians are you keep wanting to embrace. They're not the ones i see and speak with on a daily basis. I find someone who belives in God but is not sure of the path far less offensive then someone who tells me God has three equals besides him. And someone who tells me (SubhanAllah) God has popped down and impregnated the Mother of Jesus, or got someone else to do it, the third part of him the Holy Spirit or Ghost or...i mean come on this isn't our God.


And you responded to my post you're as bad as me. You are now in the Anyabwile Zone...no one wants to be there. We're on the same level now.

[laian]

And you responded to my post you're as bad as me. You are now in the Anyabwile Zone...no one wants to be there. We're on the same level now.

Yep, and I will respond again

if a Christian comes here with comments against Islam. Then...they are going to hear things they may not like about Christianity. You say "rightly so" she acts as she does...then why come here in the first place?

Ok, from what I saw I thought Ronni originally came to this board to get answers about Islam. Of course she did not come to learn about Christianity, why come to an Islam board for that? But then, in the course of getting information about Islam she got tons of anti-Christian comments (and often angry ones I think) thrown at her. I just think that could make anyone defensive. When I was a Christian learning about Islam, I would have gotten defensive if someone had answered my question about Islam by saying "Oh ya, this is what Islam believes, and in contrast Christians are blasphemous idiots destined to Hell with no chance of forgiveness." Thank goodness no one came at me like that.


(maybe this didn't happen right away, maybe she brought it on herself. If so, that's sad.)

Have you been chilling out with an unusually high number of Christians lately?? wub.gif you're dropping some of the most Bizarre postings i've seen from a Muslim for a while on here. You're not one of the "misguided" Muslims are ya? You know from the funny groups?

Nope, in fact it may be hard to believe but I'm probably more passionate about Islam than you are (if that's possible ) I'm just trying to create the same atmosphere that I had when I was learning about Islam, because as I said above, thank goodness I didn't learn about it in the atmosphere that has developed here. I just think, and I've said this before, Christians are <b>so</b> close to being Muslims, if only they could realize what monotheism truly is, they are just *one* step away, like I was. I guess I just really want to believe that people like Ronni are genuinely curious, and if they are I really want them to learn in a supportive environment. Because suppose Ronni (or any other Christian learning Islam) is ready to embrace... but maybe she has close ties with her Christian family and she's afraid that all her new Muslim brothers and sisters are going to hate and ridicule her family? I know of one sister on this board who recently took shahada, but she did it MUCH later than she would have, because she was concerned about the effects her conversion would have on her family.


Maybe it's hopeless to think that Ronni or anyone else on this board could really get close enough to want to take shahada... but really that's the only reason I even come on here, in the hopes of spreading a good impression of Islam to those who can be guided inshsAllah.

Well it's part of faith to show respect to anyone not just people of the book

lol... even everyone on this board? just kidding, I just never thought you would agree with me on that

i don't know who these cousin like Christians are you keep wanting to embrace. They're not the ones i see and speak with on a daily basis.

Basically everyone I see every day is a Christian, and they are for the most part kind and accepting. Sure there are the really fanatical ones who stand on street corners handing out Bibles and shouting for people to repent and believe on the savior....... but most of them are normal people. And most of them are genuinely curious about why I cover my head, etc. So, in contrast, I don't know who the Christians are that <b>you</b> talk to every day.


About the belief in God... I agree with you, sometimes I feel I'm gonna hurl if I have to hear people talk about how they are saved because they believe in Jesus.... I mean, come ON.... ech. And about those Bible vendors on street corners... you see them all the time at my university, and sometimes I have to walk past one, and they always offer me a Bible, they are so friendly and non-judgemental... but still I just laugh and and shake my head when they offer me a Bible. Ya, like the thing I need is another 2 pounds to add to my school bag lol.


But, having once been a Christian, I know how they see it. They are totally and completely wrong, they actually don't make three equal parts of God, most of them put Jesus <b>above</b> God, which I could never understand (and I never believed). But the point is, they still believe in God... they've just lost sight of Him. And all they need is to have their eyes opened, and I'll say it again... they are just <b>one step away</b>.


Well, maybe it's a waste of my time to hope that some Christians (or any non-Muslims) might embrace Islam as a result of this board. But it's my time to waste as I please

[Anyabwile]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="2460" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well it's part of faith to show respect to anyone not just people of the book

lol... even everyone on this board? just kidding, I just never thought you would agree with me on that


</div></blockquote>

Wow thanks a lot sister. I don't show respect to people on this board who are non Muslim. Nice one. Ok you say Just Kidding but you wrote it for all to see, the "just kidding" means nothing, it's just a formality. Go and look at the early posts when Ronnie returned to the board. And look at my early posts with Martini. And look at my posts with whats his name the other Christian who said all Black people follow Islam because they thought the Prophet was Black. I found this extremely offensive but we spoke on it and it ended respectfully. You will see that i do make an effort to be respectful with non muslim people the first time i speak with them. But as soon as that isn't returned over several posts my patience wears thin i am only human. I don't see it as my job to be apologetic about my faith, if they disresepct it over and over i will eventually have to defend it. As for the rest of your post it's just going around in circles on topics we will never agree on. I'll be the bigger person and leave that particular endless circle. Just had to address the above. " "

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Sorry totally off topic


http://www.eidmubarak.com/viewCard.php?car...461635439783555


Wasalam

[Dan]

Bismillah


As Salam alaikum


I know that I have been slacking lately but I am going to try to be more of a presense. My first act will be to remind us all (I include myself) that we should make the best efforts to STAY ON TOPIC. This serves a couple of purposes and I am sure we could come up with more if we were so inclined. The first purpose is obviously to keep the conversation focused so the topic can be properly discussed. Next it will also be of great benefit when we or visitors want to search the archives. How would we like to search for a topic only to discover that it is a conversation about Eid or how we are doing or other things that tend to get us off track.


My next act will be to remind everyone that this is an ISLAMIC FORUM. This means that Islam is discussed. I suggest pm'ing someone if you really want to compare Islam and Christianity or some other comparison. We can help people understand the beliefs that Islam holds but we do not need to get into defending the religion to others.


As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Muslimah]

Muslimah wrote:
> Besides jews have serious faults in their dogma just


> as christians for ex they say Allah (astaghferullah)


> created heavens and earth in 6 days then rested on the 7th.


I'm just trying to clarify what you consider to be the "fault" in Christian dogma.


My understanding of Islam is that Muslims believe that the Earth was created in 6 days.  So, that can't be the "fault" which you disagree with.  That leaves only the last part of your sentence ("rested on the 7th").  That must be the faulty dogma you are referring to, right?

Bismillah


Sobhan Allah I know I just suspended your account yet I will make the reply


U dont even read the posts correctly. I said this point about the Jewish dogma u r so obssessed to find a point to raise. Insh a Allah I will tackle this point specifically later. the 7th day issue in JEWISH dogma in case u didnt grasp it before.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom dear sisters


if only u browse the forum before making the posts u will find much info already there


here is a thread on sufism:


http://www.islamsms.com/bb/index.php?s...t=0entry10107


In addition to the explanation Anya put, Laian I do understand what u said, but dont Christians call Jesus God, thus worshiping him? just read some of ronniv posts, she calls him god, son, ...many other things. which exactly makes it a different God. Not certainly the One Allah We worship


Let us see what Quran say:


"Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "<b>Allah is the Messiah </b>['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." (Quran 5:72)


"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: <b>'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides</b> Allah?'" (Quran 5:116) I like to explain a point here, the Ayah in Arabic does not mean beside but rather instead of Allah


Therefore, they do worship Eassa.