Disbelievers Can Not Become Muslims!

[Martini]

Why not? Because the Quran says so, that's why not.


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YUSUFALI: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.


PICKTHAL: As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.


SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.


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YUSUFALI: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).


PICKTHAL: Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.


SHAKIR: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.


Allah purposefully makes the disease of disbelief worse:


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YUSUFALI: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).


PICKTHAL: In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.


SHAKIR: There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they


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YUSUFALI: Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.


PICKTHAL: Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see,


SHAKIR: Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.


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YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).


PICKTHAL: Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.


SHAKIR: Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.


Does this mean that any unbeliever who claims that he is now a muslim is lying?

[umm Zachariah]

Hi and welcome Martini,


Your question is <i>''Disbelievers cannot become Muslims - Why not? Because the Quran says so, that's why not.''</i>


You have raised a question, and you have also already answered it. So there might not be anything to add.


But just in case, I will add to this, a verse from the Qur'an:


''Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!



No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!


Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!


His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-


A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck! ''


The Qur'an 111:1-5


Why did I quote this? Since it so cleary supports your answer. The Qur'an says SO!


It is about Abu Lahab and his wife umm Jamil. THEY did not believe in the Message from Allah, SWT. But they could EASILY have proved it wrong - just by becoming Muslims! It was revealed during their lifetime, so they did have plenty of time to become Muslims ONLY, if for NO other reason than to prove that the Qur'an was wrong. But they could not - since Allah, SWT did already knew their destiny.


Regards

[Martini]

<b>umm Zachariah</b>, you don't think its possible for unbelievers to become muslim? What about the unbelievers who became muslim and then raised there children muslim?


Do you believe in free will? If you believe in the above suras, I think the only logical answer is no. By Allah putting a seal on there hearts, ears and eyes and taking away there light and leaving them in utter darkness, he takes away there free will to become muslim.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Martini,


First you asked <i>''Disbelievers cannot become Muslims, Why not? Because the Quran says so, that's why not.''</i>


And then you ask, <i>''What about the unbelievers who became muslim and then raised there children muslim?''</i>


I don't know if your thoughts takes several routes here, so it seems. First no and then yes. These two things do not hang together at all.


Now the Qur'an does not tell us WHO will and will not became a Muslim after we stray away somewhere after we are born. But we get the knowledge that there will always be people that will not become Muslims. But we don't know WHO they are. Only Allah, SWT, that can read our hearts, knows who they are.


Yes, we have a free will to make our own good or bad decisions or acts, BUT Allah, SWT is the All-Knowing, and that means He knows what we will be doing before we do it. But He let people, in this case, people that do not WANT to believe in Him, stay without belief. IF He would FORCE them to believe and follow His Will THAT would not be the free will that you are referring to.


So Islam teaches that we all have a free will, the decisions we make is already known by Allah, SWT, but we have a RESPONSIBILITY towards Him. And the one that does not feel responsible, will then of course be left on the side, since Allah, SWT does not force us to do anything and therefore people can continue to live their life in the belief that there is no Creator.


That lack of responsibility or arrogance will have to be responded for when the meeting with our Creator will take place. Islam is very clear about belief and disbelief, and there will be no chance to come later and say ''WHY did You not tell us about this?''


Regards

[Martini]

Originally posted by <b>umm Zachariah</b>
Now the Qur'an does not tell us WHO will and will not became a Muslim after we stray away somewhere after we are born.

Yes, it does. The suras I posted show that even if you warn disbelievers, they will not believe. Allah set a seal upon their hearts...

Originally posted by <b>umm Zachariah</b>
Yes, we have a free will to make our own good or bad decisions or acts, BUT Allah, SWT is the All-Knowing, and that means He knows what we will be doing before we do it. But He let people, in this case, people that do not WANT to believe in Him, stay without belief.

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But by sealing there hearts, ears and eyes he has taken away their free will. They now must go the rest of there lives without the free will to change there minds and follow the right path.




<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="2490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Originally posted by <b>umm Zachariah</b>
IF He would FORCE them to believe and follow His Will THAT would not be the free will that you are referring to.

I never said that He should force them to believe. The free will I'm referring to is the free will to change ones mind after being a non-believer. If you have a seal over your heart, ears and eyes you don't actually have a choice do you?

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[Anyabwile]

But by sealing there hearts, ears and eyes he has taken away their free will. They now must go the rest of there lives without the free will to change there minds and follow the right path.

Hello Martini, i was going to try and post a response to your question but i'll give you this first and then try if i can and of course Insha Allah to elaborate on it if you have any more questions regarding it.


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Question:


If Allah has sealed the hearts of the Kuffar i.e. non-Muslims, then why are they to be blamed for not accepting Islam?


Answer:


1. Allah has sealed the hearts of those who are continuously bent on rejecting the truth


Allah (swt) mentions in Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verses 6 and 7


"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them Whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.


Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)."


[Al-Qur’an 2:6-7]


These verses do not refer to common Kuffar who reject faith. The Arabic words used are <b>al-lazina kafaroo, </b>those who are bent on rejecting the truth. It will not make any difference to such people whether you warn them or not, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil. It is <b>not</b> because Allah has set a seal on their hearts that these kuffar do not understand and believe, but it is the <b>vice-versa</b>. It is because these kuffar are bent on rejecting the truth and whether you warn them or not they will not believe, that Allah has set a seal on their hearts. Therefore Allah is not to blame, but these kuffaar who are bent on rejecting the faith are responsible.


2. Example of teacher predicting a student will fail


Suppose an experienced teacher, before the final examinations, predicts that a particular student will fail in the exams, since the student is very mischievous, not attentive in class and does not do his homework. If after the student appears for the examination, he fails, who is to be blamed for the student failing: the teacher or the student? <b>Just because the teacher predicted, it does not mean that the teacher is to be blamed but the student himself is responsible for his failure.</b>


Similarly Allah (swt) knows in advance that there are some people who are bent on rejecting the faith and Allah has put a seal on their hearts. Thus these non-Muslims themselves are responsible for rejecting the faith and not Allah (swt).


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Using the teacher example it's like the teacher saying to the student "you will never pass this test. Because i know you won't" Obviously coming from a human this sounds mad, no one knows anything....but God. So coming from God this is acceptable. The teacher could see the student is obviously going to fail, looked into his work throughout the year and see he will fail. The teacher could say "I have put a veil and a seal on you, you will not pass" Of course the teacher would sound like a madman for using these words, because the teacher is not God. But the essence of what the teacher is saying is the same thing God / Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) is saying, except God can confidently say this with no fear of possibly being wrong, because God will always be right of course.


So at first glance it looks unusual or more appropriately arrogant that someone would say this. But when you accept it is GOD saying this, you accept and submit to it. Because God knows how these people are better then we or even themselves do. This is why in the Qur'an it says there is no compulsion in religion. So we should only give so much information or try to invite others to Islam to a limit and then leave it, because it's obvious some people will never accept it. This is Gods plan, if everyone accepted blindly then what's the point of free will. Hope this helps.

[Martini]

Originally posted by <b>Anyabwile</b>
If Allah has sealed the hearts of the Kuffar i.e. non-Muslims, then why are they to be blamed for not accepting Islam?

Actually, I never asked that question.

Originally posted by <b>Anyabwile</b>
1. Allah has sealed the hearts of those who are continuously bent on rejecting the truth

The Quran never specifies that they <i>continuously</i> reject faith.

Originally posted by <b>Anyabwile</b>
It will not make any difference to such people whether you warn them or not, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil. It is not because Allah has set a seal on their hearts that these kuffar do not understand and believe, but it is the vice-versa.

I don't think your interpretation makes sense. Why would Allah need to seal the hearts on didbelievers who will never believe? What the Quran is saying is, don't bother warning the disbelievers because with the seal that Allah has set on their hearts, it is impossible for them to believe. What purpose would this seal serve in your interpretation?

Originally posted by <b>Anyabwile</b>
2. Example of teacher predicting a student will fail


Suppose an experienced teacher, before the final examinations, predicts that a particular student will fail in the exams, since the student is very mischievous, not attentive in class and does not do his homework. If after the student appears for the examination, he fails, who is to be blamed for the student failing: the teacher or the student? Just because the teacher predicted, it does not mean that the teacher is to be blamed but the student himself is responsible for his failure.

Surely Allah can predict who will believe and who will not. The Quran is saying not to bother warning non-believers because they no longer have a choice with the seal Allah hath placed on their hearts, not because Allah has predicted the future.


If Allah places a seal on ones heart and hearing and a veil over their eyes, it is common sense that this person no longer has free will. Even one bent on not accepting faith may change later in life but not if God makes it impossible to do so. Making it impossible for one to change their mind is taking away their free will.

[Anyabwile]

The Quran never specifies that they continuously reject faith.

Yes it does, you didn't read my post fully unfortunately. I hope this doesn't indicate another new poster not interested in an answer but here for other reasons unknown to the rest of us. I only say this because of you appearing to miss out a section i specifically underlined the first time around. Anyway i will repeat again...

These verses do not refer to common Kuffar who reject faith. <b>The Arabic words used are al-lazina kafaroo, those who are bent on rejecting the truth. </b>

So the Quran <b>does</b> specify those who continuously who reject faith. The rest of your post i'm having real trouble getting my head around. I'm not sure if you are repeating the same question or not. I will attempt to answer again, but if you know you just want to go round in circles over and over and over then please be honest and say so, and i can switch into that mode. Right now i am attempting to genuinely answer your questions about Islam, from a friendly (i hope) position. But if you know like the other posters all curiously popping up within weeks of each other, writing in the same style, that you want to just have a dig at Islam and play a certain game with me in this post, please be honest and say so, because i am trying my best here with Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) as my witness. It's just we've had a string of posters, Christians doing the same and it's tiring. However i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to tackle your post again.

QUOTE 


Originally posted by Anyabwile


It will not make any difference to such people whether you warn them or not, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil. It is not because Allah has set a seal on their hearts that these kuffar do not understand and believe, but it is the vice-versa.


I don't think your interpretation makes sense. Why would Allah need to seal the hearts on didbelievers who will never believe? What the Quran is saying is, don't bother warning the disbelievers because with the seal that Allah has set on their hearts, it is impossible for them to believe. What purpose would this seal serve in your interpretation?

First of all the above quote wasn't actually my interpretation. It was taken from another website. I'm going to have to take your response bit by bit because the block of scentence above is confusing. Maybe it's because i'm up at 4 in the morning, don't know. Ok...

Why would Allah need to seal the hearts on didbelievers who will never believe?

Well if you ask like this he doesn't need to. But certain people will never believe so unless we are told of this, all our efforts will be spent on them. It's like me with some people i speak with and keep trying to show them the truth, they don't seem to get it or even want to try. I would happily continue showing them for ever, because as a Muslim it is clear this is the truth and thus i think in my finite knowledge as human i can keep on pushing with this person until they see, because it is the truth.


To us it's like explaining to someone that water is wet, throwing it on them but they won't belive. You know that if you explain to this person that water is wet and they eventually belive you, you will save them from eternal torment. A strange analogy but just bear with me here, i'm trying to give an example. So you know for yourself as a fact that water is wet (Islam is the truth). So therefore you think "well with time, i can convince them...it is the truth water is wet, it's obvious but i'll keep working on them" Because you <b>know </b> water is wet, it's obvious and because you know them realising this will save them from eternal torment, you will try your best for ever to keep drumming home this is the truth. 1) because it's obvious this is the truth and 2) because it will save them from eternal torment. This is why you will continue.


To a Muslim, saying Islam is the truth is exactly the same as saying water is wet, both are clear facts to us. So we will naturally exhaust all our efforts on Da'wah calling certain people to Islam who we think <b>"why can they not see this is so obvious it is the truth"</b> This calling to Islam to certain people because of our solid beleif this is the truth and us wanting to save them from eternal torment could go on for ever. By Allah saying there is a seal on them accepting the truth, then this verse is saying to us "let it go, there is no point, honestly i know the future for these people" It is a way of telling us even though we know it's the truth, it's not worth continuing and busting a vein over, as i do sometimes. Then i have to return to this verse to remind me.


When i read it, i'm just not reading Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) has put a veil over these people on purpose for some fun, taking away their free will and therefore sending them to hell for his own sick pleasure. I am reading that if i am a Muslim reading this verse, even though i see it is the blatant clear as day truth, don 't continue to keep trying to convince them. Efforts could be spent elsewhere like on family, the Muslim community etc etc.


Some will never belive Islam is the truth, some will never belive water is wet even though it is blatantly obvious that it is and we would want to spend all our lives showing them this before it is too late, even people we don't like. Allah is saying to us we know it is the truth of course it is so it seems obvious to us, but some people (becuase their future is seen to him,) don't accept it is the truth so move on from those people who you feel the veil or seal has been put over and try others or concentrate on your community etc.


Those who eventually accept after some Da'wah then the seal wasn't on these people. These are not the people mentioned. Fine, some will eventually see but we must as Muslims accept that some won't ever belive, this is written for them, this is the course their life is going to take, the pre destination (which is another topic as to whether you accept this or not). No matter how impossible it seems that they won't belive to us, we should accept it and move on to someone else, or something else. Not spend our lives trying to shake people who seem really stubborn out of their disbeleif.


Hope this answered the Question.

[honeycomb]

of course. bcoz how can someone who disbelieves Islam (i.e. the disbelievers), lives & practices the Islamic religion (as one of the muslims)? they don't. & that's why. plus why would anyone call himself a muslim, while he basically rejects the religion? maybe the disbeliever will even find it offensive if you call him a muslim. i'm a muslim & i don't want to be called a Christian/Jew/Hindu. so i simply don't understand why would a disbeliever want to be known as muslim.


although, yes, of course if a disbeliever turn to believe Islam (like many muslim reverts), sure.. he/she can become muslims.


PS : once the non-muslim Chinese asked will they go to Hell because they disbelieve Allah & Islam, my Islamic lecturer simply said, "why would you ask Heaven from the God you don't even believe?" & smiled. it's so simple, really...

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Hi Martini,


Your comment <i>''The suras I posted show that even if you warn disbelievers, they will not believe. Allah set a seal upon their hearts...''</i>


I think this already has been explained thoroughly after I had to retire last night. You reread the post so I don't have to repeat it.


<i>''But by sealing there hearts, ears and eyes he has taken away their free will. They now must go the rest of there lives without the free will to change there minds and follow the right path.''</i>


This has also already been explained. These people are not interested in using their free will to follow the Sirat al Mustaqim, they simply do no believe. So it is no surprise for Allah, SWT, since HE knows already they will never believe, it is HE that knows our future and 'destiny' and ONLY He.


<i>''I never said that He should force them to believe. The free will I'm referring to is the free will to change ones mind after being a non-believer. If you have a seal over your heart, ears and eyes you don't actually have a choice do you?''</i>


No, but that is the consequence if someone that will NEVER join the right path, (you and I don't know that only Allah, SWT knows that) and are not interested to use his or her free will to take themselves away from that wrong path. To take the right path in that case would mean to be FORCED and noting else. ''Yes you were given your choice too, but you were not interested in taking it.''


It is like giving something away for free (in this case true belief) and there will always be someone that are too proud or arrogant to take it (disbeliever) since this person do not believe in Allah, SWT. He or she believes everything in this universe is a 'mistake' or even they themselves are, that is REJECTING faith and that person will be left with that free will they have and believe what they will. They will not be forced to change that 'belief'.


And they are NOT interested in that a day will come, since they do not believe it, when they will have to answer for their disbelief before the One that put them here.


Regards