Who Was Jesus (as)?

[Rehmat]

Jesus (as) bowed down in submission on the ground to God - {Matthew 26:39}


Jesus (as) said: “All of you who submit your will to God, are my true brothers and sisters (Mark 3:31-35).’


(Matthew 7:21-23) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 7:21-23).”


This proves that Jesus (as) was neither a Jew nor a Christian.


Now let us see where the name Jew comes from. {Gen 11:31} we see that Abraham took his family out of his homeland "Ur of the Chaldees". Therefore, Abraham could not have been a Jew because that is a part of Iraq. He was more an Arab than a Jew. Secondly, the name Jew came after the existence of Judah, the great-grandson of Abraham.


Abraham in the Bible is called "a Hebrew" {Genesis 14:13} which means a human from the other side of the Euphrates. It also means pertaining to Eber a descendant of Shem, clearly not "a Jew”. The descendants of Jacob were called Israelites {Gen 32:28} consisting of twelve tribes. Judah was nicknamed "Jew" so that only Judah's descendants were called Jews originally.


Moses (as), was from the tribe "Levite" {Exodus 6:16-20} therefore also not a Jew. The name Jew {according to the Bible} is not a reflection of "an organized religion" as Jews want us to believe, but a Tribe, a forename, an ancestor branch off of a large family tree. But worse of all that racism – 90% of Western Jews don’t even belong to those 12 Tribes – They are Mongolian Khazars, of Turkic race, who adopted Judaism in the 10th century.


Jesus may have been a Jew by birthright, but a Muslim by Faith.

[christynicole1974]

I’m new here so please no offense is meant. This question “who was jesus” is posted in the Non Muslim area of the board so I assume you are Muslim and asking non muslims our view on this?


Was Jesus a liar? He said that he was the Only Way to God


"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6).


You are quoting the bible as if you believe that it is truly the word of God trying to disprove Jesus… yet in that same bible Jesus is quoted claiming that he is the ONLY way to get to heaven. so my questions is was Jesus a liar based on the above scripture? Or was he a lunatic and crazy for thinking he was the son of God in the scripture below?


God's Love


"God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"


(John 3:16 NIV).


Or was he in fact the son of God (not necessarily in literal terms born to but created by) Quran: SURAH 3:47 lends evidance that No Man made Jesus in Mary’s womb but that GOD put Jesus there, but created by God and through an angel placed in Mary’s womb to live a perfect life and save us all….


Jesus was not a Christian, Christianity was a following of Christ’s teachings after his death. He was a Jew both by birth and belief in God, but he came to show the way, the “living word of God” the book was not being followed, and so God sent him to “show” the people.

[laian]

I'm editing this post, somehow it posted before I finished... see my post below

[laian]

Bismillah


I just wanted to add my two cents to this conversation. When the bible says in John 14:6 as christy quoted,

Was Jesus a liar? He said that he was the Only Way to God
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6).

I take this to mean that Jesus is referring to himself as the example for people to follow to get to heaven. Just as Abraham had the true religion from God and asked his people to follow him, and Moses, and all the other prophets including Mohammed, peace be upon them all.. Each was a prophet to his own people, and the people are required to follow their prophet. So the people of Jesus' (alaihi salam) time are required to follow his example, and we as the people of Mohammed (saws) are required to follow his example. So Jesus (as) is correct to say I am the way... in other words, what I do is what you should do, follow my way, it is the only true religion accepted by God. This is the same for all prophets.


On a note about Jesus' miraculous birth... God created Adam (as) without a man or a woman... He created Eve from only a man... He created Jesus (as) from only a woman... and He created the rest of us from a man and a woman. So he shows he is capable of everything. Also, each prophet had a miracle as a sign that they were a chosen prophet of God. In Moses' (as) time the high interest of the day was magic, as there were many skilled magicians. So he gave miracles to the people of Pharoah that were far beyond anything their magicians could do. In the time of Jesus (as), the high interest was medicine, so Jesus (as) was able to cure sicknesses by Allah's power, and his birth was also miraculous and he could speak as a baby in the cradle. In Mohammed's (saws) time it was literature, and Mohammed saws was illiterate and his miracle was the Qur'an, which is a perfect book containing many literary miracles.


This is my own understanding of these things, and I hope it makes the muslim view of Jesus (as) more clear for you.


Allah knows best.


Salam

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Sister Laian you added more to this issue than 2 cents


Allah, SWT did send Prophets and Messengers during all this time to different nations so that they should be able to follow His will. Without them we could not have known how to do it. And Jesus, AS was sent to his people. And the others to theirs, just as you said.


On the other hand Muhammad, SAAWS was sent to the whole humankind for all times and places to come.


Just want to add one thing about eternal life. Islam teaches there will eternal life, without a HUMAN sacrifice.


This hadith from Bukhari, from 60 no 254, tells us this:


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:


Allah's Apostle said, "On the Day of Resurrection Death will be brought forward in the shape of a black and white ram. Then a call maker will call, 'O people of Paradise!' Thereupon they will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' By then all of them will have seen it. Then it will be announced again, 'O people of Hell !' They will stretch their necks and look carefully. The caller will say, 'Do you know this?' They will say, 'Yes, this is Death.' And by then all of them will have seen it. Then it (that ram) will be slaughtered and the caller will say, 'O people of Paradise! Eternity for you and NO DEATH O people of Hell! Eternity for you and NO DEATH."


Then the Prophet, recited:


'And warn them of the Day of distress when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness (i.e. the people of the world) and they do not believe.' (19.39) The Qur'an.


Salam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Hi Chrity, sorry if u find me poping in with each thread u r on.


Let us take this discussion from a different angle. Logic only logic.


Let us assume your view is correct of jesus being the only son of God (may Allah forgive me). It means that God had a son, as a result of any miraculous manner fine I understand, God sent His ONLY son to mankind. To do what? to call for worshiping God, am I not right? So the aim is to have the creation (mankind) believe in God. Obviously they were not. Who is a God? One of Super power, One Who is free of all needs and wants, One Who can do anything at any time. Does this God need His creation's compassion? No He does not.


But this same God still Sends His only son to mankind who went astray to bring them back to the correct path. Not only this, but also He sacrifices His only son to eliminate their sins and grant them salvation.


Now what did this creation deserve? Punishment for being astray.


Instead God being so loving to His own creation sacrifices His son. This makes the creation to God more important than His son. Whereas a God needs neither to beg his creation nor to force them to worship Him. But rather the creation needs much to worship God. Worshiping God is being in touch with Him. Now again, back to the main theme. Fine God decided He loves His creation more than His only son, He sacrifices the son. Of course He was able to save him on the cross but He decided not to. Still remains people who didnt believe in Him the way He wants them to belive who are Jews and Muslims, right?


Which makes this major sacrifice in vain. Which also puts a lot of question marks about God of how to handle situations. Isnt this demeaning for a God image? Didnt God have a more effective and powerful way adequate to His Supernature to teach us to believe in Him? I know the sacrifice was to eliminate the sins. What about the sins committed by Christians nowadays, like murder, stealing, rape or whatever. Or this sacrifice was to cover even such acts.


Again for the point of having a son. Regradless of the manner this son was created, having a son implies parenthood feelings. How can a God have parenthood feelings? A God in my view must be totally different from the creation. it makes one so comfortable and safe to know that our Lord is of a Supernatural power and Being. Having a son annuls all this.


Just think about such points for the time being I dont want to prolong the post.

[ronniv93]

1. Jesus (as) bowed down in submission on the ground to God - {Matthew 26:39}
Jesus (as) said: “All of you who submit your will to God, are my true brothers and sisters (Mark 3:31-35).’


(Matthew 7:21-23) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 7:21-23).”


2. This proves that Jesus (as) was neither a Jew nor a Christian.


Now let us see where the name Jew comes from. {Gen 11:31} we see that Abraham took his family out of his homeland "Ur of the Chaldees". Therefore, Abraham could not have been a Jew because that is a part of Iraq.


3. He was more an Arab than a Jew. Secondly, the name Jew came after the existence of Judah, the great-grandson of Abraham.


Abraham in the Bible is called "a Hebrew" {Genesis 14:13} which means a human from the other side of the Euphrates. It also means pertaining to Eber a descendant of Shem, clearly not "a Jew”. The descendants of Jacob were called Israelites {Gen 32:28} consisting of twelve tribes. Judah was nicknamed "Jew" so that only Judah's descendants were called Jews originally.


Moses (as), was from the tribe "Levite" {Exodus 6:16-20} therefore also not a Jew. The name Jew {according to the Bible} is not a reflection of "an organized religion" as Jews want us to believe, but a Tribe, a forename, an ancestor branch off of a large family tree. But worse of all that racism – 90% of Western Jews don’t even belong to those 12 Tribes – They are Mongolian Khazars, of Turkic race, who adopted Judaism in the 10th century.


4. Jesus may have been a Jew by birthright, but a Muslim by Faith.

<b>Point 1</b>


It is not proven from the verse quoted that Jesus "bowed down in submission on the ground".


I'm not saying he didn't bow in prayer, but simply that the verse used here says nothing about that.


<b>Point 2</b>


Neither is point 2 proven by the verse quoted. It is well-known that Jesus DID IN FACT follow the Jewish laws, except that He came to teach SOME new things and CLARIFY some old things. He studied the Torah and taught in the synagogues.


So, how you could say He wasn't a Jew by practice or faith is beyond me. And it would make sense that Jesus wasn't a Christian, because the word means to be "Christ-like", or emulate Christ. Well, Christ couldn't emulate Himself; He could only BE Himself.


<b>Point 3</b>


Why the history revisionism. It is well-known that the Jews are traced back to Isaac and the Arabs are traced back to Ishmael. Both of them came FROM Abraham. Abraham was a HEBREW by race/ethnicity. Plain and simple.


And the term JEW as it has been used in history and modern times can refer either to people who are ETHNICALLY Jewish (Israelites) or who are Jews by FAITH (i.e., following the Torah and the writings of the other OT prophets).


<b>Point 4</b>


It has not been proven, even partially, that Jesus was a Muslim by faith.


What would a "Muslim by faith" have even practiced or believed in back then? There was no Quran. There was no Muhammad. He didn't observe Ramadan or run around the Kaaba. He didn't have the command to pray 5 times a day.


Jesus taught the TORAH and the TANACH. Those are Jewish writings.


And yes, I know you hate Jews, but this is FACT.


So, being a Muslim back then meant being a Jew (as Jesus was)? Is that what you're saying?

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


ronniv I really not inclinded into repeating myself or even what is already contained in other threads. U did read thru Joshua's thread. But I will explain this one essential point again.


All Messengers and Prophets starting from Adam till Mohamed, including Ibraheem (Abraham) Mussa and Eassa peace and prayer be upon all of them did not call for any other religion but Islam to Allah the Only One Deity Worthy to worship.


So Islam does not mean Mohamed SAW or Quran, it is the only teachings Allah Sent to mankind. If u r not ok with this that is fine. But this is the truth.

[umm Zachariah]

Salam Ronniv,


One thought that came to mind.


In you point 1 here you say that the verse says nothing about that Jesus, AS bowed down but the verse says Matthew ''39: And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."


And to ME to ''fell down on his face'' means just bowing down. For how is it possible to fall down on the face without bowing down? I am not quite sure even a acrobate can accomplish that


And to fall bow down and fall down on the face or forehead and nose as we Muslims do is the true way to submit to our Creator. Masha'Allah. And Jesus, AS did not do anything lesser when submitting to our Creator.


Bye for now

[ronniv93]

Ahhhh, you are correct Umm. I guess I was reading so fast, I didn't take note of that scripture reference. I just saw the one Rehmat actually posted.


So, I guess MY response to that is the one that is incorrect.


I never did disagree that Jesus would bow to pray. Jews can bow in prayer just as Christians may bow in prayer. I have never seen a commandment saying that one HAS to do this, though.


I don't think you always have to bow in prayer. There was one person in particular whom Jesus saw praying (this is in the Gospel of Luke) and it says the man beat upon his chest as he cried out to God. This obviously means he wasn't bowed to the ground at the time, yet Jesus commended him on his prayer because of the CONTENT of his words, not the position of his body.


So, to me, there's nothing wrong with bowing and nothing wrong with not bowing.


Anyway, thanks for your post.