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Islam Quesion Based On Quran
#1

If I am posting improperly or this is not welcome please let me know. I asume this area of the board is for non muslims to ask questions about the Islam faith and laws...


My husband of 8 years is a muslim and I a Chrstian. We do discuss our reliogions but I dont want to offend with my questions, just learn. I am not attempting to teach my faith to anyone, just learn about Islam.


so here goes


What is the Hadith? Is it consider scripture and from ALAH or from Mohammed?


In the Hadith 3.826 Muhammad said that women are genetically and legally inferior because of the defincency of a womans mind.


Is this what is truly believed in modern day Islam?


Also in Surah 4:34 "As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share thier beds, beat them."


Does modern day Islam allow Men to beat thier wife if they "fear disloyalty"


Thanks for your feedback, I am deeply curious. Christy

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#2



Quote:My husband of 8 years is a muslim and I a Chrstian. We do discuss our reliogions but I dont want to offend with my questions, just learn. I am not attempting to teach my faith to anyone, just learn about Islam.
so here goes


What is the Hadith? Is it consider scripture and from ALAH or from Mohammed?


In the Hadith 3.826 Muhammad said that women are genetically and legally inferior because of the defincency of a womans mind.


Is this what is truly believed in modern day Islam?


Also in Surah 4:34 "As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share thier beds, beat them."


Does modern day Islam allow Men to beat thier wife if they "fear disloyalty"

You’re married to a Muslim for the last eight years but you decided to ask this question now and not to him or an Islamic scholar in the mosque your husband maybe praying – Don’t you think it’s ridiculous?


I am not an Islamic scholar, but let me say my peace:


1.Holy Qur’an is the ONLY ‘Word of God” – Not, OT, NT or Talmud – Those ‘scriptures’ have been corrupted by human long time ago. According to Dr. Robert Funk DDD, they carry less than 20% of “divine messages”.


2.Hadith, is basically a “Tradition of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)” – Some of it could be “divine instruction” from Allah, while some could be his personal judgement. However, the “Sahih Hadiths” are not like Judo-Christian Gospels, so


sure.


Regarding Hadith 3.826 - Do you know what Jesus and St. Paul have said about women in NT - or better do you know how OT blame women for the "First Sin" or your morning Jewish Prayer "Thank G-d for not making me a Gentile or a Woman"????


Now, Surah 4:34 – ….’Beat with what”, darling? Not, with hockey stick, stone, or sledge-hammer – but a “slight hand push – Which is much more human than what your Bible or Talmud tell you to do. Don’t forget that those scripture allows it believers; not to marry a widow, not to give divorce and worse of all – have sex with a 3-year-old girl!


And now I guess, ronniv93, I don’t have to response to the e-mail I just got with this very post “pasted” on it [Image: biggrin.gif]

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#3
Hi Christy, Its nice to have you here. I was just browsing quick through the forum and noticed your post. Im in a bit of a hurry now, and just wanted to quick welcome you.
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#4

Wow, I am a non Islam hoping for direction and answers to questions, I was not expecting to feel attacked for asking them. I am open with my questions with my husband and have asked him and others before, but no one could anser me, much like the answer you gave me. Perhaps I am being ridiculous to even ask, but I thiught that is what this forum "Non muslim questions" was here for. But thanks for your reply and the information regarding the Hadith. I am aware of what Peter and Paul think (thier personal opinions) of women... though I was not questioning thier beliefs or the bible here... I have my opinions regareding the bible. Do you think that more western people would want to learn about the beauty of Islam if they were welcomed and thier questions were answered with kindess?


If anyone else would be so kind as to answer "does modern day Islam allow a man to beat his wife if he 'fears disloyalty' " (note it does not say if she was disloyal, just if he thought she might be) as outlined in Surah 4:34


And is it the general belief of MODERN DAY ISLAM that the woman is legally deficient in her mind? (Hadith 3.826)


Thanks again, Christy

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#5

Hello christynicole,


I was just browsing this forum and I saw your post and I really want to answer your questions inshaAllah, but right now I have to go to class so inshaAllah I will return as soon as possible to make my reply. But for now I just wanted to say that I appreciate your questions and mashaAllah there is a lot of knowledge among the people of this board so inshaAllah you will find the answers you need here.


[Image: biggrin.gif]


salam

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#6

Bismillah


Hello christynicole and thank you for your questions. I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge from my own understanding of what you are talking about. I hope I am not saying anything incorrect or misleading, and I do not want to make any fatawas but just to try to explain my understanding of these questions. Please, if I am wrong about any of these answers will someone correct me and inshaAllah we can all learn from these questions.


First of all, I must say both you and your husband must both be very patient and loving people to live peacefully with each other for 8 years with different beliefs! This is very nice and I am so glad you are trying to learn about Islam.


Ok, for your first question, about the hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence and religion... first let me tell you that we have to be careful about English translations of both Qur'an and hadith because they can be misleading. Here is an English translation of that hadith that you mention:


“On the occasion of Eid, either that of sacrifice or that of ending the fast, the Prophet went to the prayer place, and then went to speak to women and he said: “Ladies! ... I have not seen people deficient in mind and religion yet can get away with a rational man’s mind like any one of you.” They asked: “How are we deficient in mind and religion, Messenger of God?” He said: “Is it not true that a woman’s testimony counts as half that of a man?” When they answered in the affirmative, he said: “This is her mental deficiency. Is it not true that when a woman is in her period she neither prays nor fasts?” They again answered in the affirmative. He said: “This is her religious deficiency.” (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)


This translation is from this website http://www.islamicvoice.com/april.2003/dialogue.htm


which also offers a good interpretation of the hadith. But let me offer a summary of what I have found on this hadith.


I read about this when I was learning about Islam, and I was shocked because until then, I had only heard about the honored status of women, so how could the Prophet SAWS say women are deficient in mind and religion? Here is what I found. "Deficiency" in this case does not really mean a bad thing, as in the context in English it means something that has a fault by being deficient. But in the context used here, it means that because of women's nature, given by Allah for a good purpose, women have less responsibility in these areas, which is not a "fault" -- it is simply the way it is.


The reason that 2 women's testimony is needed to equal that of a man is because women are very loving and gentle by nature (which is needed for raising a good family) and they could have compassion for someone whom they testified against and in their own mind put them in a better light. This is why it is said 2 women are needed for one testimony, so that the other can remind her. By the way, this should be seen as a mercy for a woman, so that if she is ever called to witness on something she cannot be held solely accountable for any errors she makes. But a man, who as a human can also make errors, will be held strictly accountable for those. So you see, the woman has less responsibility in this area, and this is translated as a "deficiency."


The same holds true for the religion part. Because of the woman's cycle which is necessary for childbirth, she has regular periods where she does not pray or fast, which simply means she is responsible for less than a man in this regard. I have heard that women are encouraged to give charity to make up for what they are missing out on in terms of reward for the prayers they miss, but the way I see it if a woman has a period and does not pray, this is Allah's will and the way He designed us, and so the woman is simply following Allah's will in this and will be rewarded for her patience.


As to whether or not "modern" muslims believe women are deficient in these... it does not matter if we are modern or not, the principles of Islam apply to all people for all times. So yes, the hadith holds true today, but in the way that I have explained above. In no way does anyone think that a woman is inferior to a man because of this. Men are not allowed to restrict women from praying in the masjid, because a woman's worship is just as valid as a man's worship and she has just as much right to pray in the masjid if she wants. There are also many other instances in the Qur'an which say that men and women will receive equal reward for equal deeds. I won't quote any because I'm assuming you are aware of these. So as far as religion goes, men and women are seen as equal, but women have less required of them because of their periods and childbirth.


For intelligence, it is the same. Men and women are seen as having the same capability of knowledge and understanding, both of religion and of anything scholastic subjects. When a man is looking for a wife, he should prefer a woman who is educated, because she will be the one to raise and teach their children. Also, just as we are not allowed to restrict a woman from attending the masjid, we are not allowed to restrict a woman from gaining an education. So in all practical senses, men and women are definitely equal --- but equality does not mean SAMENESS, and men and women have different requirements and responsibilities, but the same reward for fulfilling their respective roles.


Ok I'm sorry that answer was so long, but I hope I have made it clear to you inshaAllah, and again if I have made any error please anyone correct me, and inshAllah Allah will guide us to the truth. And once again I want to make clear that my answer is only out of my own understanding.


For your second question, about the beating. This is again an issue of translation. Here is the basic point of that ayat. If a man thinks his wife might be doing something against Islam or something that would compromise the chastity of their marriage, such as maybe she doesn't pray all her prayers, or she talks too much to other men.... then he needs to correct her, both for her sake and for the sake of their marriage and family. He has three options to correct her, and they must be done in order. First he must ask her to stop. If after he asks her she continues, then he should continue to ask her but may also punish her by denying intimacy. And the Qur'an is clear in saying if he does this and she corrects her actions, then he can no longer punish her for this. If after he does these two things she still does not correct herself, then he may "beat" her. And this is the controversial word. I don't know the arabic word that is being translated (can anyone let us know?), but I understand that it should be translated as to "beat lightly" as with a small twig or toothbrush, which obviously would not hurt, but it would be a physical way to show her that she is doing the wrong thing. Kind of like if you lightly slap someone's shoulder if they do or say something you don't like. It is an immediate expression of your disapproval, and it is effective because they can feel it. But it is not intended to cause harm. In no way should a man harm his wife, either physically or emotionally. It is his responsiblity to care for her.


I should add that if you think about it, if you are in a situation with your husband where maybe there is a guy at work who always wants to take you to lunch everyday and your husband says he is jealous and does not want to you go to lunch with him... he has taken his first option and asked you to stop. If you love him, which I assume you do, and you do not want to make problems in your marriage, it's easy just stop doing it. And if there is any situation where he has to take his second or third option, then there is something wrong because you should want to please your husband and not continue doing something like this that makes problems in your marriage. In Islam, it is the wife's responsibility to keep harmony in the home, so I honestly don't think this should ever be an issue if you are married to a good person and you love each other, it should never get to the point where this is a problem.


I should also add that women are not given these options with their husbands simply because men have greater strength than women and if a husband is doing something wrong that requires correction in this manner, then he is probably not a good muslim and there is a danger that he could hurt his wife in retaliation. It is better for her to seek arbitration than to try to further provoke her husband.


But really, I have never ever heard of something like this ever happening, it seems like it would be a rare case because as I said, a husband and wife should both want only to make the marriage happy.


Again this is only from my opinion and understanding and I hope it makes things clear for you. If I have made any error, please someone correct me inshaAllah. And please anyone add something to make it more clear if you have anything inshaAllah.


Allah knows best.


salam [Image: biggrin.gif]

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#7

Bismillah


I forgot your first question about what is a hadith. Quickly, Qur'an is the word of God. Hadith is stories by the companions of the Prophet SAWS that tell what they heard him say or what they saw him do, which serve as an example to how we should live our lives.


salam [Image: smile.gif]

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#8

Oh thanks dear lalian, your answers are very informational and easy to follow. I have always understood the basic idea of Islam that women were not "less thab" but equal in a differnt way. Thanks for helping to understnad the translation. I find many ediscrepencies in the english translation of the bible as well, when looking at hebrew and greek text the words actually mean something else. Thanks again for your help.


Rehmat, while I do not understand what you are talking about exactly I certainly am picking up on your disdain for me and I guess anyone who does not think and believe exsactly what you believe. I will not post to any of your topics as to not upset you and I will ask that you please do not post to mine. I find you offensive and rude. I am not challenging Islam nor am I making "fun" as you are of "real christians".


Thanks, Christy

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#9

I appologize for sending you the email, it was prior to me posting, I was looking for guidence here is a copy of it:


I see that you are logged in and just wanted to ask if I am allowed to post questions in the non muslin question area. I came here looking for some answers regarding Eid and became intruiged. I have many questions re Islam and dont mean to offend. I just thought Id ask a member to be sure I was using proper etiquitte.


Thanks, Christy


I dont quite get the Jewess / Christian girlfriend thing yiu said, but Im sure it was an insult. I a sorry if I have offended you, it surely was not intentional, though your insults seem to be. Please accept ,y appologies and let's agree to not discuss our differenes. Thanks

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#10

Bismillah


peace Christi


U r certainly most welcome to ask questions here hoping with the Support of Allah to reply to them. I also fully understand why would u, although u r married to a Muslim, would want to come and ask here. No need to explain why I understand I just understand [Image: smile.gif]


Mash a Allah i see Laian gave a full reply Mash aAllah


Let me add just one point, regarding the hadeeth issue, Allah in Quran Say:


"Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. * It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.


" (Quran 53:3-4)


Actually we have a full thread dedicated to Sunnah. But to be brief the Messenger didnt speak of his own desire never. So the hadeeth is another source of legislation. Actually thru hadeeth we learnt how to talk, walk, eat, sleep, pray, perform Haj. So how can this be not Divine? if we learn worships thru hadeeth. The issue on hadeeth is settled. We have the sahih which are compiled thru trustworthy scholars. Their contents are striclty verified thru certain criteria.


Laian Mash a Allah fully explained about the deficiency of mind and religion. To add on it. Once a Jewish female I worked with asked me the same question, also regarding the right to divorce. I asked her how many times she asked her husband for divorce during pregnancy? She said alomst every day for silly reasons. She started getting it. During those critical times, the woman is even more emotional than usual. She is every senstive cries for no reason, gets emotional over the tinniest matters. In case one goes for testimony under such conditions, she may easily faulter. Matter of fact, it is out of Mercy of Allah that He minimized our level of responsibilty not out of disrespect. On the other hand, the Messenger SAW used to closely consult with his wives during crucial situations.


Do u know that during his first attempt to go to Mecca after he immigrated for ummrah (minor piligrimage), the Meccan's refused to allow him in, he already with the companions made Ehram (special condition in which they are not allowed to shave hair in preparation for Ummrah or Haj). He asked the companions to shave and return back to Medina so they can come back the next year. They refused. He consulted his wife Umm Salama who adviced him to shave first and slaughter the sacrifice for removing Ehram without performing Ummrah. He did this and the companions followed him of course.


Hadeeth is very essential for us to take, it is the way of life of the Prophet who actually applied Quran.


Did I help?????? [Image: ph34r.gif][Image: smile.gif]

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