Why Convert?

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv93,


Brother Dan already explained point 1 to you but I fill it out a bit with a few lines that can be read in a book called ''The Messengers and the Messages In the light of the Qur'an and Sunnah'' by Dr Umar Sulaiman Al-Ashqar.


1. Allah, SWT has informed His Messengers and Prophets in three different ways. The first is that by direct address to the heart of the Prophet to who, the Revelation is intended; in such a way that the person concerned shall have no doubt that what is in his heart is from, Allah, SWT. So this way through dreams, since prophetic dreams are always true. For example like Ibrahim, AS, when he was to slaughter his son as he saw like a command from Allah, SWT, you can read the Qur'an 37:102-105.


The second form of revelation is that Allah, SWT, speaks to His Messengers from behind a veil, as in the case of Moses, AS - The Qur'an 7:143 and 20:11-14. To Adam, AS - The Qur'an 2:33 and likewise Allah, SWT spoke to Muhammad, SAAWS at the night of the Ascension to the Heavens.


The third form, is revelation to a Messenger through the angel, Gibrael, like in The Qur'an 42:15 and 'a Messenger' here meaning Gibrael.


2. Let me take an example,


''It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).'' The Qur'an 3:3.


Now to fully understand this, it is good to read the tafsir to this. Here I give you the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir to these verses. He is a well know scholar.


**[بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ ]


[الم - ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ - الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلوةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَـهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ - وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالأْخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ ]


(In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful) (1. Alif-Lam-Mim.) (2. Allah! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists.) (3. It is He Who has sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming what came before it. And He sent down the Tawrah and the Injil,) (4. Aforetime, as a guidance to mankind. And He sent down the criterion. Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah, for them there is a severe torment; and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution.)


We mentioned the Hadith in the Tafsir of Ayat Al-Kursi [2:255] that mentions that Allah's Greatest Name is contained in these two Ayat,


[اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْحَىُّ الْقَيُّومُ ]


(Allah! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists) and,


[الم - ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ ]


(Alif-Lam-Mim. Allah! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists.)


We also explained the Tafsir of,


[الم ]


(Alif-Lam-Mim) in the beginning of Surat Al-Baqarah, and the meaning of,


[اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْحَىُّ الْقَيُّومُ ]


(Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa, Al-Hayyul-Qayyum) in the Tafsir of Ayat Al-Kursi. Allah's statement,


[نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَـبَ بِالْحَقِّ]


(IT IS HE WHO HAS SENT DOWN THE BOOK TO YOU WITH TRUTH, ) MEANS, REVEALED THE QUR'AN TO YOU, O MUHAMMAD, IN TRUTH, MEANING THERE IS NO DOUBT OR SUSPICION THAT IT IS REVEALED FROM ALLAH. VERILY, ALLAH REVEALED THE QUR'AN WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE, AND THE ANGELS TESTIFY TO THIS FACT, ALLAH IS SUFFICIENT AS A WITNESS. ALLAH'S STATEMENT,


[مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ]


(CONFIRMING WHAT CAME BEFORE IT) MEANS, FROM THE PREVIOUS DIVINELY REVEALED BOOKS, SENT TO THE SERVANTS AND PROPHETS OF ALLAH. THESE BOOKS TESTIFY TO THE TRUTH OF THE QUR'AN, AND THE QUR'AN ALSO TESTIFIES TO THE TRUTH THESE BOOKS CONTAINED, INCLUDING THE NEWS AND GLAD TIDINGS OF MUHAMMAD'S PROPHETHOOD AND THE REVELATION OF THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN.


Allah said,


[وَأَنزَلَ التَّوْرَاةَ]


(And He sent down the Tawrah) to Musa (Musa) son of `Imran,


[وَالإِنجِيلَ]


(And the Injil), to `Isa, son of Mary,


[مِن قَبْلُ]


(Aforetime) meaning, before the Qur'an was revealed,


[هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ]


(as a guidance to mankind) IN THEIR TIME.


[وَأَنزَلَ الْفُرْقَانَ]


(And He sent down the criterion) which is THE DISTINCTION between misguidance, falsehood and deviation on one hand, and guidance, truth and piety on the other hand. THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE INDICATIONS, SIGNS, PLAIN EVIDENCES AND CLEAR PROOFS THAT IT CONTAINS, AND BECAUSE OF ITS EXPLANATIONS, CLARIFICATIONS ETC.


Allah's statement,


[إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأيَـتِ اللَّهِ]


(TRULY, THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE IN THE AYAT OF ALLAH) MEANS THEY DENIED, REFUSED AND UNJUSTLY REJECTED THEM,


[لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ]


(FOR THEM THERE IS A SEVERE TORMENT) ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION,


[وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ]


(And Allah is All-Mighty) meaning, His grandeur is invincible and His sovereignty is infinite,


[ذُو انتِقَامٍ]


(ALL-ABLE OF RETRIBUTION.) FROM THOSE WHO REJECT HIS AYAT AND DEFY HIS HONORABLE MESSENGERS AND GREAT PROPHETS. **


The emphasises are mine.


Hope this clarifies the matter.


Regards

[ronniv93]

Thanks Dan and Umm_Zachariah for your answers.


This is becoming more difficult than I originally intended. The first question alone is presenting a problem I didn't anticipate. How do we communicate or come to some level of agreement/understanding between us? When I read stories of the prior prophets, I see over and over again where God spoke directly to them.


The Quran and hadith, followed by Muslims, does not say this.


If it weren't for the Bible, I wouldn't even know detailed information about the various prophets that are mentioned in the Quran. But then the Quran presents information that is different from what came before it.


Wow! LOOL.


I'm not really looking for an answer to this issue. It's just "funny" how this problem has come about. There are very few points where we can find some common ground. Ahhh, oh well....

[Muslimah]

Peace ronniv, let me pop in here, I dont see how problematice this is. Mash a Allah Dan gave u a brief reply to which Umm Zachria elaborated. Now your question was how Did Allah communicate with Messengers according to Islamic teachings. So they gave the answer. whether or not we come to a common ground was not the core of interest here. But rather to explain.


As for the second point:


The Quran did mention that the Bible was distorted so did the Torah. Let me just point the Ayhas here Insh aAllah:


"2:75 Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite <b>of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah [the Taurat (Torah)], then they used to change it
</b>knowingly after they understood it?


(4:46)


"<b>Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: "We hear your word (O Muhammad ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ) and disobey,"
</b>


(5:13)


"<b>So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them.
</b> And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves Al Muhsinoon (good doers).


(5:41)


"O Messenger (Muhammad ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ)! Let not those who hurry to fall into disbelief grieve you, of such who say: "We believe" with their mouths but their hearts have no faith. And of the Jews are men who listen much and eagerly to lies - listen to others who have not come to you. <b>They change the words from their places; they say, "If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!"
</b>And whomsoever Allah wants to put in Al Fitnah [error, because of his rejecting the Faith], you can do nothing for him against Allah. Those are the ones whose hearts Allah does not want to purify (from disbelief and hypocrisy); for them there is a disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a great torment."


The above mentioned positions are all regarding the Jews as u may see. u know what ronni actually we only quote Quran because u ask to be given this from Quran. We are fully aware u dont believe Quran is the word of Allah. But we have not other option.


Now as for bible:


"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ) explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and passing over
(i.e. leaving out without explaining) much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light (Prophet Muhammad ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ) and a plain Book (this Qur'an)." (5:15)


I hope I answered your question....


And I will not stress the point I brought to your attention on an earlier post, no problem let it be.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv93,


I see that sister Muslimah is sitting in her corner of the world as I am sitting in mine and writing at the same time and the same thought came to my mind too, masha'Allah. That is what struck me - Ronniv you have asked about HOW we explain things from OUR view, and now you write ''There are very few points where we can find some common ground.'' So is THIS your real purpose? How to find common ground? I thought the basic question was 'why convert'? Is this now turning into finding common ground instead?...


So as you said ''funny'', then I will add, how things can be turned around!


Regards

[Muslimah]

Sobhan Allah Umm Zachria Sobhan Allah

[Muslimah]

ronniv, I noticed that u objected to any quotation from Barnabs.


Usually as u noticed I place short posts, sorry if I will have to put this long one.


I had this article long time ago written by a revert woman. She quoted nothing but bible verses not inlcuding Barnabs.


Just read Insh a Allah and reflect:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(((((Produce your proof if you speak the truth)))))


Jesus crucification is one of the most important incidents written in the bible so what I am asking now.??? That an important event like that should have be mentioned and maintained in the most right and logical way. Unfortunately; what I discovered here is completely the opposite for example; in MATHEW [26:36] “Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane; and said to them. “Sit here while I will go over there and pray”. He began to be sorrowful and troubled. …then; he said to them, “my soul is overwhelmed to the point of death” [38 ]. I asked myself if Jesus is truly the Lord of the universe so to whom he prays, and since he wants to save us from our sins so why all this trouble he feels and sorrows to the point of death. In the verse [39]“ Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, (my father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will but as you will” going a little through…. asking his lord to prevent “this cup” from him. Also in MATHEW [26:66-67-68].”The high priest said that Jesus is worthy of death..Then; they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him, prophecy to us Christ who hit you ??” they even made fun of him


How demeaning to perceive the supposedly to be God who created the universe in such an image. If one would argue that Jesus had two natures both divine and human simultaneously and that he died in human quality this poses other problems, was that Jesus has to undergo a punishment to purge??? While Jesus sits on the right hand side of God which makes him different from God. And if Jesus was a human being on earth and remains a human being also in heaven SO at what moment will he be a complete [GOD]. God punishes the innocent in order to be able to pardon a sinful? Is that a logical way to set free the sinner/ why also these three days in the grave? It would have sufficed to open the gate of the prison after one day? Further; what about the sinners who come after Jesus departure???? So as Jesus descended as a dead person into the grave; incapable of doing any thing would serve no purpose….!!!!! MORE THAN THIS;??…I think that the forgiveness of sins should come out of the repentance of the sinner and by the grace of GOD; and not by punishing an innocent even if he is Son of God.


IN THE COMING STATEMENT: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS HIMSELF IS ADMITTING THAT HIS FATHER IS BETTER THAN HIM !!!!! JHON 14:28. “I am going to the father for the father is greater than I|” he also admits that he is sent from the only GOD as clearly stated in JHON 17:3 “now this is eternal life: that they may know you; the only true GOD and Jesus Christ you have sent”.


Jesus as a prophet:


Do you believe that Jesus himself is confirming as manifested in IN RELEVATION [18:8] that he is a prophet he says: “ worship GOD!! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”.


In another position of the RELEVATION [22:7] HE says “Behold I am coming soon!! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book”.


IN RELEVATION [22:19] JESUS warns against the sin of changing the bible “IF any one will take words from this book of prophecy GOD will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are discribed in this book”.


Here is another verse proving that JESUS is a prophet IN MATHEW[13: 57] most of the people around him refused his teachings which made him say “THEY take offence of him, only in his hometown and in his own house is a PROPHET without honor”.


The real source of miracles perfromed by Jesus ******


IN MATHEW [9:6-7-8] “Then; he said to the paralytic: get up take your mat and go home. And the man got up and went home, when the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man”.


THE PREVIOUS VERSE EXPLAINED ITSELF.

[ronniv93]

Hmmm.... I don't really think that what I've asked has turned or switched or anything. I simply asked 2 questions, the 1st of which has been addressed.


When I asked why all the other prophets spoke to God directly but Muhammad was sent an angel, I wasn't anticipating the fact that we (Christians and Muslims) don't even agree about God's method/mode of communicating with other prophets.


I thought we at least had *that* common understanding and that I could thus get an answer as to why it seemed to change with Muhammad. But, if the base level of understanding is not common among us, then that negates the whole question. For me, there apparently will never be a good answer given, because the whole premise of my question (i.e., that God spoke directly to other prophets besides Moses) is not even believed by Muslims.


So, I'm not "turning" my purpose into anything.


My question was what it was. But my question will not get an answer, because we don't even agree on the foundational issue that prompted me to ask in the first place.

[ronniv93]

Muslimah,


You're right that I object anything posted from that lying document. So many people push it and try to use it to prove Islam, but the book is clearly false. Yet it's all over many, many Islamic web sites. The people who promote it don't seem to be concerned with finding out truth. If they did, they would investigate a little more before they start (perhaps unintentionally) spreading lies.


I did read what you posted from the person who converted to Islam and reflected, as you suggested. Thanks.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv93,


If I may repeat your second question in one of the last posts where you included 2 questions.


''2. Why haven't I seen a place in the Quran or a quotation from Muhammad that says the previous revelations were corrupted? The Quran seems to say that there is "guidance" in the Torah and Gospel; why doesn't it also say that they have been corrupted? Or why isn't this stated in a hadith? I would think that that was pretty critical information to convey to people.''


You then got 2 angles to try to look at this, the answer to your question - first from me WHAT it is that Allah, SWT means in the Qur'an when He speaks of EARLIER REVELATIONS and a tafsir to this and then sister Muslimah gave some easy to understand references from the Qur'an from another angle how Allah, SWT tells us in the Qur'an about the earlier Scriptures and what happended to them. To these replies your answer was ''I simply asked 2 questions, the 1st of which has been addressed.''


So we did truly try to give you informative answers to also your second question, but since you reply like this I assume you do not accept our answers. But these are the answers that are to be found in Islam. And that WAS your question I believe.


Regards

[ronniv93]

Oops. Sorry, you're right. The 2nd one was addressed. I read the response yesterday and wanted to go through it more. I was just trying to hurry and get a response off so quickly today, I guess, that I simply overlooked it.


I'm not rejecting the response or ignoring it. Just an oversight on my part today.