Why Convert?

[umm Zachariah]

Hi again Ronniv93,


You could try to read through what I wrote about fitrah, since it is rather revealing if you want to understand the way Allah, SWT, gives us knowledge of Him. I don't know if you did since you did not comment that at all.


''in Islam you call Allah All-Forgiving, correct? Well, can't a human being be forgiving? ''


Well there is a big difference, Allah, SWT is ALL-forgiving, you forgiving your family and friends is another matter. That is forgiving between humans. Another issue.


If Allah, SWT, plants KNOWLEDGE in our hearts it does not mean we are like Him. He created everything, but this 'everything' is His creations.


It would be like saying that you as a human being 'creates' or designs a new model for a car-factory, does that make you a car too? I don't think so. But you put your knowledge into that car so it can be driven safely, and you construct it and make the appearance of it to your liking, but you will still not be a car. You will be the constructor of the car.


''I don't believe there is a "religion of Allah". Religion is simply a name/title we use to identify one set of beliefs from another. Like, I don't look at my faith as a "religion". Religion, in my mind, symbolizes a bunch of rules, do's and don'ts, rituals and practices but no relationship.''


I think you are wrong. There IS a 'religion' of Allah and that is the one that always have been taught to by His prophets, to SUBMIT to Allah, SWT. That is why Islam, that means just that, is not namned after someone, but only 'namned' after what is the Will of Allah, SWT. The things that you call do's and don'ts and rituals, are very NECESSARY IF you want to KNOW what it is that Allah, SWT, wants you to SUBMIT to. Without that GUIDANCE you will not know HOW to submit to your Creator. You will try to do it your own way INSTEAD of following the way that He is showing you. And THAT is NOT submitting at all.


''That's one of the reasons why Jesus didn't commend or praise the Jewish scholars/teachers of His time. They knew all the right rituals, the right way to do this and that.... but they didn't KNOW God.''


Would you say that is what the Jews today do - that they don't KNOW?


Did you not say that EVERYONE KNOWS God? What makes you now say that the Jews in the time of Jesus, PHUB, did not know God?


Regards

[lifutushi]

Assalamu'alaykum...


actually, i don't know which part of Islam that you say unexplainable. Islam is very easy to understand, and the most important part is, Islam via Al-Qur'an conform science while Christian via Bible conflict science. science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.


logically, if Jesus is the body of God, then we can say that Jesus doesn't have a spirit and inner soul, the Father is without a body and spirit, while Holy Spirit lack of body and soul. Imagine a body without a soul walking on earth.....and the body prayed to His own soul (how did you worship your own self?). most ironic, the body begged for His soul to help Him ("Eli,Eli, Lama Sabachtani"/"My God, My God, Why have You forsaken me?").

[ronniv93]

Hello lifutushi,


Let me address your post really quickly here.


I did not say that God was the Spirit, Jesus was His body, and the Holy Spirit was just something else without a soul or a body.


That is not what I believe.


I merely gave an analogy. That's it. An analogy is never meant to be EXACTLY the thing you are trying to describe.


I was merely trying to communicate that the concept of 3-in-1 is not all that confusing to me. A lot of people seem to act like it's totally illogical and makes no sense at all, yet the average person can at least understand the concept when they think about the make-up of a human being.


Do I know everything about the subject? No. What has been revealed has been revealed and no more. No one on earth will ever fully know or understand EVERYTHING about God; at least not now while we remain on the earth.


We understand the parts that we do and then wait to the glorious day when we will see the Father.

[ronniv93]

umm_Zachariah,

You could try to read through what I wrote about fitrah, since it is rather revealing if you want to understand the way Allah, SWT, gives us knowledge of Him. I don't know if you did since you did not comment that at all.

Sorry I didn't comment. There's just a lot to read and go through and I haven't gotten around to going through everything yet.

Well there is a big difference, Allah, SWT is ALL-forgiving, you forgiving your family and friends is another matter. That is forgiving between humans. Another issue.

But you know what forgiveness is, right? <b>Of course</b> it's not the equivalent of God's forgiveness; never meant to suggest otherwise. The point is: if you never experienced forgiveness, if you never gave forgiveness in life.... if you never heard or used the word, term, concept in life..... How would you understand the Quran when it says that Allah is All-Forgiving?


There must be SOME frame of reference.


What would be the point of God speaking to us and revealing Himself to mankind if a person could never understand anything He said since He's sooooo totally unlike anything else in the world?


When God communicates, He speaks to us in a way that we would understand. Otherwise, what would be the point of Him talking to us or revealing Himself if we are all unable to grasp what He's talking about?

If Allah, SWT, plants KNOWLEDGE in our hearts it does not mean we are like Him.

Well, I am certainly not here to suggest that we are on some equal (or even close to equal) footing with God. There are differences, though, it seems in how Islam understands God and human beings and the Bible's teaching on the same subject.


Another area where our faiths are very different. It happens.

The things that you call do's and don'ts and rituals, are very NECESSARY IF you want to KNOW what it is that Allah, SWT, wants you to SUBMIT to.

But they don't help you <b>KNOW</b> God personally and intimately. That's different from knowing what God expects of you.


I am married. I can know what my husband expects of me as a wife, what things matter, what things don't matter. I can know how to fulfill all of my obligations and expectations.


That alone will NEVER mean that I *KNOW* my husband.


Knowing my husband (or anyone) comes from spending time with him, talking to him, listening to him communicate back to me, fellowshipping together, etc.


Knowing the "rules of the house" will never give me an in-depth, intimate knowing of him, however.

Would you say that is what the Jews today do - that they don't KNOW?

Well, I can't speak for every Jew in the world. Some know Him, I'm sure; some don't.

Did you not say that EVERYONE KNOWS God? What makes you now say that the Jews in the time of Jesus, PHUB, did not know God?

Forgive me. Perhaps the language I used was not very clear. I was trying to say that everyone in the world can know that there IS a God; that a Creator exists.


Knowing that He exists does not mean knowing Him personally.


And notice that I didn't talk about ALL the Jews living at the time of Jesus. I specifically named a particular GROUP, that is the scribes and Pharisees... the teachers and scholars of their religion. I didn't say all Jews.


But see, these were the "scholars" of their religion, the most knowledgeable about all the laws, proper way to carry out rituals, etc. But they were not the one's who Jesus commended. Most of the time, it was the common person who just had pure, solid faith. They may have committed sins in their lives, they may have been poor, not very advanced in society, they weren't the wisest people in their religion. They simply had a pure desire to know God, love Him and display their faith in Him. Being "scholarly" alone was not impressive to Christ.


Regards

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv93,


IF I can make a suggestion - since you say that you have a lot to read, to catch up on, maybe it would be better if you take time to do that, there is good hope that you will find many answers to the questions you raise.


Just adding one upon each other, do not solve the former nor the later. It will only end up in a mess, and then the beginning and the end is difficult to find.


Therefore I will be brief.


You must try to bear in mind that Muslims have no problem whatsoever to understand Allah, SWT, and His ways - it is you that don't yet grip it. But your 'problem' of not understanding Allah, SWT, cannot be moved to us. Just because you don't understand, it does not mean that we don't understand. It is you, IF you want to understand that have to dig deeper into Islam.


You came here approaching us, asking for information, so that is what we are trying to give you. From OUR point of view.


Regards

[radiyah]

What would be the point of God speaking to us and revealing Himself to mankind if a person could never understand anything He said since He's sooooo totally unlike anything else in the world?
When God communicates, He speaks to us in a way that we would understand. Otherwise, what would be the point of Him talking to us or revealing Himself if we are all unable to grasp what He's talking about?

Look Ronni, as sister umzakhariya said, it is u who do not know, and it is u that things are not clear to, we know God, we are able to grasp what he is talking about, and all that is in The Holy Quran, we understand it we know what Allah want from us, we have no problem with that at all. Our scholar told us, if u want to speak to Allah direct , pray to Him, and that is when we muslims pray in prostrating and seeking aid from Him only.


and he told us when u want Allah to speak to u read The Quran, because in it Allah is telling us what He wants from us, what to do and what not to do. So we do grasp ronni we do


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


35. Allâh is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as (if there were) a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp is in glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east (i.e. neither it gets sun-rays only in the morning) nor of the west (i.e. nor it gets sun-rays only in the afternoon, but it is exposed to the sun all day long), whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself), though no fire touched it. Light upon Light! Allâh guides to His Light whom He wills. And Allâh sets forth parables for mankind, and Allâh is All-Knower of everything.
24, Alnoor

But they don't help you KNOW God personally and intimately. That's different from knowing what God expects of you.
I am married. I can know what my husband expects of me as a wife, what things matter, what things don't matter. I can know how to fulfill all of my obligations and expectations.


That alone will NEVER mean that I *KNOW* my husband.


Knowing my husband (or anyone) comes from spending time with him, talking to him, listening to him communicate back to me, fellowshipping together, etc.


Knowing the "rules of the house" will never give me an in-depth, intimate knowing of him, however.

The do's and dont's help us the rituals help us, u r not in our place doing what we do to judge that, whenever I perform prayer to Allah I feel very close to him, becasue I am doing what he ordered me to do, and I am directing myself to him only and not via any other media. We know Allah we know who He is we become so close to him when we pray. Except that what he looks like, that we do not know and should not raise questions about, we will know on judgement day and not everbody will see him , only those who Allah wishes to speak or talk to .


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


161. Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allâh and of the angels and of mankind, combined.



162. They will abide therein (under the curse in Hell), their punishment will neither be lightened, nor will they be reprieved.


174. Verily, those who conceal what Allâh has sent down of the Book, and purchase a small gain therewith (of worldly things), they eat into their bellies nothing but fire. Allâh will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor purify them, and theirs will be a painful torment.


175. Those are they who have purchased error at the price of Guidance, and torment at the price of Forgiveness. So how bold they are (for evil deeds which will push them) to the Fire.


176. That is because Allâh has sent down the Book (the Qur'ân) in truth. And verily, those who disputed as regards the Book are far away in opposition. 2 Surat Al-Baqara


your relation with your husband is merely a human being with human being relation, u cannot compare it with your relation to Allah, who is your creator ronni, in The Quran everything is clear to us as muslims, we know we understand the word of Allah, and we abide by his words, muslims who do not know, are weak muslims who did not study their relegion and who do not have very close relation with Allah, and those who do not read the word of Allah and understand it.


I will leave u with some verses from the Quran, read them and try to understand them as we do, then your answers will be answered, I think we should leave u a bit here to dig more and understand more.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


189. And to Allâh belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and Allâh has power over all things.



190. Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.


191. Those who remember Allâh (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Rab(God)! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire.


192. "Our Rab! Verily, whom You admit to the Fire, indeed, You have disgraced him, and never will the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) find any helpers.


193. "Our Rab! Verily, we have heard the call of one (Muhammad ) calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Rab,' and we have believed. Our Rab! Forgive us our sins and remit from us our evil deeds, and make us die in the state of righteousness along with Al-Abrâr (those who are obedient to Allâh and follow strictly His Orders).


194. "Our Rab! Grant us what You promised unto us through Your Messengers and disgrace us not on the Day of Resurrection, for You never break (Your) Promise."


195. So their Rab accepted of them (their supplication and answered them), "Never will I allow to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female. You are (members) one of another, so those who emigrated and were driven out from their homes, and suffered harm in My Cause, and who fought, and were killed (in My Cause), verily, I will remit from them their evil deeds and admit them into Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise); a reward from Allâh, and with Allâh is the best of rewards."


what I wanted to convey here, that we as muslims do know our Creator, We know what He wants from us and we do understand His Word and what he wants from us, and never do we ever compare our relation with any human being with the relation between us and Allah, Creator of heavens and earth nothing is like him, nothing is ever compared to him.


Peace

[Muslimah]

ronniv make up your mind:


(To me, Jesus Christ *is* the Word of God. <b>He is described as the Son of God
</b>in the Gospels; not as some physical son as if our Creator had some sort of intercourse with a human being to produce Him. I believe that Jesus Christ has always existed and always will. He came to be the mediator of a new covenant and redemeed mankind by being the sinless, spotless sacrifice for our sins.)


<b>(For the Christian, Jesus is/was God manifest in the flesh.)
</b>


Now which is which


u said we give a lot of home work, simply because u come with different points but not well coordinated or organized. we must provide answers.

[Muslimah]

and I agree with Umm Zachraia u need to take time to read and study before coming with more points. we will hold on Insh a Allah

[lifutushi]

Assalamu'alaykum...


dear ronniv, i don't know how much you know your God, but please don't compare us to you, we know Allah for sure, and we love Him and believe in Him. we're not on the same ground as you. we understand the basis of our religion which is "There Is No God But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger". we don't need to give an anology that would be taken back because we don't have to be a scholar to understand the basis of our faith. i'm tired of different explainations of trinity from each person i asked, including priests. i don't know how you will expalin it since you took back your anology, but surely it is confusing, like the bible itself (i've read the bible many times, the more i read, the more i believe in Al-Qur'an, the more i studied about Christianity, the stronger my faith in Islam).


i'm not talking from baseless point here, i've studied Christian and Atheism and i'm sure that i'm in the right religion, Alhamdulillah. now why don't you try to study Islam from the Qur'an and see it for yourself? i'm not asking you to be a muslim, just to read the Qur'an and compare it with the Bible.

[ronniv93]

I think things are getting to be just a bit arrogant around here. I agree, lifutushi, I am not to be compared to Muslims. I'm sure we have very different reasons for thinking that, however.


And for your information, I have read the Quran. I found it very hard to follow because there was no logical organization to it; just jumped from one topic to another. I've studied about all of Islam which is <b>NOT</b> just the Quran. It is the Quran and the Hadith and the Sunnah. Much of it simply doesn't register with me, because TO ME, Islam doesn't make sense.


For you all, you like to just ridicule Christians and the Bible, but I didn't come here doing that to Islam. (And don't say that it's not possible to do that to Islam because it just makes so much sense).


I asked genuine questions and am being met with arrogance by many, not all, people here.