Why Convert?

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom my brothers and sisters on this thread


Of course we all need to develop patience, however, in some cases, non Muslims take it as we are begging them to embrace Islam or we are pressing them to do so. When the case is neither nor. Because as u all know Islam is a gift, and we are already 1.6 billion. We need to focus and develop ourselves first. we dont need to beg no one or ask no one to be a Muslim.

[radiyah]

U r more than welcome ronni

Ahhh.... Then you are speaking of the Catholics and/or Orthodox Christians. I'm not sure about the money part of it; haven't heard that one.
Well, I am Protestant, so we don't have a concept of priests. Biblically speaking, all believers are part of a "royal priesthood".

Oh okay then, u yourself don't pay or confess to priests?

I agree. For that same reason, I don't accept belief in more than 1 God.

I agree. That's one of the biggest problems (among many others) that I have with Catholic belief.

I can say "Amen" to that.

Okay great then with all these I agree we are standing on something solid here ronni , we both agree that there is one God Allah, see in the Holy Quran it says:


In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful:


1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allâh, (the) One.



2. "Allâh-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).


3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;


4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him. 112, Surat Al-Ikhlas


God is One = Allah is one only he is worthy of worship. So did Prophet Muhammad ask us to worship him? never he said as Allah described in The Holy Quran:


In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful:


1. Yâ-Sîn.



[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ân, and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings.]


2. By the Qur'ân, full of wisdom (i.e. full of laws, evidences, and proofs),


3. <b>Truly, you (O Muhammad ) are one of the Messengers,</b>


4. On a Straight Path (i.e. on Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism).


5. (This is) a Revelation sent down by the All­Mighty, the Most Merciful,


6. In order that you may warn a people whose forefathers were not warned, so they are heedless. 36, Surat Yasin


24. Say: "It is He Who has created you from the earth, and to Him shall you be gathered (in the Hereafter)."



25. They say: "When will this promise (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) come to pass? if you are telling the truth."


26. Say (O Muhammad ): "The knowledge (of its exact time) is with Allâh only, <b>and I am only a plain warner."</b>


There are other verses describing him as messenger only to worship one God and obeying Him. So Prophet Muhammad did not give any credit to himself, if u read the Quran properly. So if u will tie your belt and continue your journey with us me and my brothers and sister will explain to u all your questions, we do not want to be defying u asked a question Y convert? we will try clear your confusion, if u r not convinced that is okay it is up to u then .


summurizing, God is ONE. Allah is ONE we both agree


our father Abraham, Moses(PBUH) Jesus(PBUH) Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) called to worship one GOD.


In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful:


59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.



60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.


61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allâh, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allâh upon those who lie."


62. Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Iesa (Jesus)], and, Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allâh is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.


63. And if they turn away (and do not accept these true proofs and evidences), then surely, Allâh is All-Aware of those who do mischief.


64. Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."


So did prophet Muhammad(PBUH) say worship me or did he ever ask for worldly gains, never did he say that in any of his speech(Ahadeeth), and Th Quran he read to us as revealed by Allah.

See, that's what I don't fully understand myself. I don't know if I can say that at some point there was one fully written and compiled Quran and then changes were made to it afterward. I just know that there were some differences in ancient manuscripts.
I have seen the scholars of Islam say that the Quran was actually "revealed" in all these different ways through Muhammad himself. Now, THAT part.... I don't understand.

These different ways ronni is not changing words of the Quran, it is the way it is read, the arabs at that time had different accents, just like we now have different accents, weather in the modern arabic or english, there were different eloquent arabic accents, so it has nothing to do with different languages or manuscript, difference of manuscript is according to hand writing also, there are many different hand writings, each islamic community, would write arabic letters in a different way, so here where comes Ulom Al-Quran ronni. it teaches the different sciences of Quran:


1-Tafseer= Understanding the meaning of Quran, for even arabs sometimes did not understand the verse when it was revealed, so the Prophet(PBUH) would explain it to them, that then brings the second science.


2- Olum- Al-hadeeth, which is the translation of the Quran verses, that are not understood.


3- Ilm Al-Tajweed= this one now ronni is what u r confused about and what the scholars are talking about, this is how to read the Quran in a perfect way as it was revealed to prophet Muhammad(PBUH) by Allah, and since the arabs had different accents, the reciting of the Quran will differ according to their accent which will not detoriorate the meaning or change any one single word in the arabic text.


<b>Tajweed</b> is defined as: Articulating every letter from its articulation point and giving the letter its rights and dues of characteristics.


The fruit of this science is :It is preserving the tongue from mistakes in pronunciation of the Glorious Qur’an during reading.


There were many teachers of this tajweed, or teaching the Quran reciting from the sahabas of the prophet, each according to his accent. So they were allowed to recite it with seven tongues, which means seven accents. But no different text. so is it clear to u now or I got u in more confusion I hope not


well this post is a bit long, I hope u do not get bored reading it . May Allah enlighten your heart ronni Ameeeeeeeen


Peace

[Muslimah]

peace ronni, may be Radiyah gave more explanation on the point of pronunciation, but to add more, when I said dialects and that is who Allah revealed the Quran, I meant to say Allah taught Mohamed to pronounce it in 7 different ways and that is how he taught the companions.

[Muslimah]

ronnive, one question before we carry on if u want to continue understanding.


As a Protestant, who is Jesus to u. I know that u dont hold Mary a holy position. But who is Jesus to u?


Just give us this info...thanks

[ronniv93]

Hey <b>Muslimah</b>,


You asked a brief question, let me provide a brief answer for you.


To me, Jesus Christ *is* the Word of God. He is described as the Son of God in the Gospels; not as some physical son as if our Creator had some sort of intercourse with a human being to produce Him. I believe that Jesus Christ has always existed and always will. He came to be the mediator of a new covenant and redemeed mankind by being the sinless, spotless sacrifice for our sins.


-----------------------------


To <b>Umm_Zachariah</b>


Thanks for your post. I *do* understand what you say about what distinguishes Muslims: Belief in one God and in the last prophet.

Yes, I believe that a lot of people that are not Muslims feel God, no doubt about that.

I know that everyone everywhere in the world can know that there is a God; no person has an excuse to not acknowledge this. That's the bare minimum. Creation itself testifies to that.


I said more than that, however. I don't "feel" God. I know Him. I know about His nature, who He is, how He relates to me. God is very personal to me. I talk to Him and He speaks back. Of course, not in an audible way like I can hear my TV or radio. But, I "hear" Him just the same. He gives me direction in life; He even told me that my husband was "the one".


So, it's more than just so-called "feeling" God. I *do* know Him personally and intimately.

About the spirit. One could also say the spirit and the soul. It is not such an easy subject. Can I recommend you to read the following web-sites, that explains it much better than I can do?

Now I'm seeing something new. Let me dig through these sites a little bit.


I was curious about this topic because I know that as a Christian, I believe man has a body, spirit (<i>your inner self</i>) and soul (<i>mind, will, emotions, etc.). I wanted to know what Muslims believed about the man's nature.


All of you are providing some good information in your posts and in your links. In the middle of it all, I'm trying to respond to everyone, too.


You all give a lot of "homework"!

[ronniv93]

Okay, this should really be my last post for now as it's 3:30 in the morning here. (Can't sleep, though).


Anyway, radiyah and Muslimah, I read what you said about the 7 different ways to pronounce the Quran. And yes, I have read about this (of course, I have my questions on that) .


However, well..... I think someone else made this suggestion already, but why don't we leave this topic aside for a while? It could go into a deep discusision all on it's own and I think we've got enough going on as it is.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv93,


''I know that everyone everywhere in the world can know that there is a God; no person has an excuse to not acknowledge this. That's the bare minimum. Creation itself testifies to that.''


Yes to you that is obivious, to me that is obvious. But it is not obvious to everyone. There ARE people that don't believe in the Creations as being from Him (astarghfirullah). They believe that the creation and everything in it is only by pure chance. But if I leave that for now, since neither of us is interested in that explanation.


The Qur'an 7:172 tells us that Allah, SWT, made all human beings swear to His Unique Divinity when He created Adam, AS. This OATH is therefore PRINTED on the human soul even before it enters the mother's fetus. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural belief in God. This natural belief is called in Arabic the "fitrah". If a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment. The Prophet Muhammad, SAWS reported that Allah, SWT said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray." (Reported in Sahih Muslim.) The Messenger of Allah, SWT, also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian." (Reported in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim).


Therefore a Muslim submits to the Will of Allah, SWT: "It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if anyone disobeys God and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." The Qur'an 33:36.


''So set your purpose for religion as a man upright (hanifan) by nature (fitrah) - the nature (fitrah) framed by God, in which He created mankind. There is no altering (the Laws of ) the creation of God." The Qur'an 30:30.


In this verse, Allah, SWT also identifies the fitrah with the way of the hanifa, which means the way of Pure Monotheism as practiced by Abraham, AS. The religion of Abraham and all of the prophets, peace be upon them all, was one of the true fitrah, in which they worshipped Almight God alone without intermediaries or an incarnated "Savior".


Ronniv93, about intermediaries and another savior (astarghfirullah) than Allah, SWT - I don't say that YOU believe that, since I don't know that you do, but it is though a very common belief included in Christianity.


Sorry for adding to your 'homework' - but surely you are here to learn aren't you?


Regards

[ronniv93]

Just to clarify, I do not believe in <i>another</i> Savior besides God. For the Christian, Jesus is/was God manifest in the flesh.


I cannot compare to God, I know, but just to make an analogy: I am one person with a physical body, an inner spirit, and a soul. All make up my 1 person; each has a different role.


Now, Christ said that He was one with the Father and whoever knew Him also knew the Father. The Holy Spirit has always been as well. Belief in the Trinity does not separate them out and make 3 gods.


To the Muslim mind, I know that is the hardest and/or worst thing to grasp about Christian belief, but.... it is what it is.


There are things about Islam that are not clear or easily understood, even to some Muslims themselves. But if you accept faith and belief in Islam, you just accept it, right?

[umm Zachariah]

Hi again Ronniv93,


No you are probably right, to compare Allah, SWT, with yourself when explaining the Christian view is not such a good idea, since we Muslims believe that He is One and Unique. Therefore He cannot be compared to anything. At least His creations.


To me the thougth that ALL of Allah, SWT, Prophets have guided people to 'know' Him, is not something new for Jesus, PHUB. They ALL did that, that is the reason why He sent them in the first place, so that people would get knowledge of Allah, SWT, and they also showed us with their practical example, HOW to do it to please Him. The task of Jesus, PHUB, was surely no less.


I don't know what things in Islam that you refer to that is not easy to understand or that is unclear. I don't follow you there.


But the point for now, is how Allah, SWT, is looked upon. And surely the Christian belief differs, a lot.


I think the really interesting point is that no one else of the Prophets, not the ones before nor the one after, have ever stated this that Christianity claims. So it can be of interest to raise the question - what is the true religion of Allah, SWT?


Regards

[ronniv93]

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No you are probably right, to compare Allah, SWT, with yourself when explaining the Christian view is not such a good idea, since we Muslims believe that He is One and Unique. Therefore He cannot be compared to anything. At least His creations.

I kindof agree. That's why I didn't call it a comparison. It's merely an analogy to help me understand.


I don't think that such things are bad or wrong. I mean, in Islam you call Allah All-Forgiving, correct? Well, can't a human being be forgiving? Of course, it's nowhere near close to the level of God, nevertheless we can at least understand something about forgiveness from the human examples that we have.


That doesn't bring God down to our level; nor does it elevate us to His.


But just as you said (or maybe it was someone else), there is something in is instinctively that lets us know that there is a God. We are not totally unlike or unsimilar to our Creator.


Allah, to you, is All-Loving, correct? Does that mean, then, that human beings can't love other people or Allah because we cannot compare to Him? No. We understand human love. And we know that God's love far surpasses any love that we could ever for another.

I don't know what things in Islam that you refer to that is not easy to understand or that is unclear. I don't follow you there.

That's a whole separate issue that could be it's own thread. But you know that there are some things that we can understand intellectually about our respective faiths. And some things we take merely based ON faith; can't be proven or it doesn't necessarily make sense to our human minds.

So it can be of interest to raise the question - what is the true religion of Allah, SWT?

I don't believe there is a "religion of Allah". Religion is simply a name/title we use to identify one set of beliefs from another. Like, I don't look at my faith as a "religion". Religion, in my mind, symbolizes a bunch of rules, do's and don'ts, rituals and practices but no <b>relationship</b>.


That's one of the reasons why Jesus didn't commend or praise the Jewish scholars/teachers of His time. They knew all the right rituals, the right way to do this and that.... but they didn't KNOW God.


One will never come to know God intimately and relate to Him just following do's and don'ts each day.