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THE_ICONOCLAST · (This post was last modified: 08-03-2004, 09:05 PM by THE_ICONOCLAST.)

Muslimah

I've gone nowhere, you see, I'm right here. [Image: biggrin.gif]

After you read this post, you will have no doubt as to whether or not you should only follow Al-Qur'an.

We, who, are Allah and Al-Qur'an Only and Alone, fully accept these ayats:

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

39:23. Allahu nazzala ahsana alhadeethi 
kitaban mutashabihan mathaniya taqshaAAirru minhu juloodu allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum thumma taleenu julooduhum waquloobuhum ila thikri Allahi thalika huda Allahi yahdee bihi man yashao waman yudlili Allahu fama lahu min hadin

39:23. Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message 
in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the remembrance of Allah. Such is the guidance of Allah. He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

The following ayats pertain to you and the followers of the hadith compilers: 

31:6. Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa alhadeethi
liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan ola-ika lahum AAathabun muheenun

31:6. But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales
, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a humiliating Chastisement.

52:34. Falya/too bihadeethin
mithlihi in kanoo sadiqeena

52:34. Let them then produce a saying
like unto it,- If (it be) they speak the truth!

33:53 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tadkhuloo buyoota alnnabiyyi illa an yu/thana lakum ila taAAamin ghayra nathireena inahu walakin itha duAAeetum faodkhuloo fa-itha taAAimtum faintashiroo wala musta/niseena lihadeethin
inna thalikum kana yu/thee alnnabiyya fayastahyee minkum waAllahu la yastahyee mina alhaqqi wa-itha saaltumoohunna mataAAan fais-aloohunna min wara-i hijabin thalikum atharu liquloobikum waquloobihinna wama kana lakum an tu/thoo rasoola Allahi wala an tankihoo azwajahu min baAAdihi abadan inna thalikum kana AAinda Allahi AAatheeman

[33.53] O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk
; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Apostle of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.

7:185 . Awalam yanthuroo fee malakooti alssamawati waal-ardi wama khalaqa Allahu min shay-in waan AAasa an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi hadeethin
baAAdahu yu/minoona.

7:185. Do they see nothing in the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message
after this will they then believe?

45: 6. Tilka ayatu Allahi natlooha AAalayka bialhaqqi fabi-ayyi hadeethin
baAAda Allahi waayatihi yu/minoona

45: 6. Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition 
will they believe after Allah and His Ayats? 

77:50. Fabi-ayyi hadeethin
baAAdahu yu/minoona

77:50. Then what Message
, after that, will they believe in?

Allah, to my knowledege, only mentions TWO sunnah in His Qur'an...the sunnah of Allah and the sunnah of the ancients. Muslimah, show me, in Al-Qur'an, where I can written, ad verbatim, that is, word for word:

"THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET".

Now:

Some Muslims go backpacking in the remote Ozark mountains of Tenneesee and upon leaving one of them discovers that he left his Qur'an [in english] at the camp site. Well, one of the residents of the area who lives there happens upon the Qur'an and begins to read it.

Based on the above scenario, please answer the following questions, but before you do, think about what Allah is saying in the following ayats:

18.54 And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

Please answer the following with a simple yes or no, thanks.

a. will that person know who Allah is and what He has commanded him/her and mankind to do?

b. Will that person know how to take shahada?

c. will that person know how to practice righteousness/justice?

d. will that person know how to call upon/pray to Allah?

e. will that person, upon reading Al-Qur'an and following its contents, be admitted to Paradise?

Looking forward to your reply. And, please, no conjectures, just facts.

THE_ICONOCLAST · (This post was last modified: 08-04-2004, 12:13 AM by THE_ICONOCLAST.)

Muslimah

"When the hypocrites come to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), they say: "We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah." Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars indeed" (Quran 63:1)

***The underlined part of the Ayah shows what one must do to be a Muslim. This covers up the part that to be a Muslim u must utter full Shahadah***

Muslimah, did you read the ayat before you posted it? Allah is telling the Messenger and us that...The Hypocrites will say...I/we, bear witnes that you are the Messenger of Allah. Don't you get it? the sign of the hypcrite is that, he/she will say... "I bear withness that Muhammmad is the Messenger of Allah". The kalima you use:

"I bear withness that there is no god but [Allah and Muhammad] is His Messenger",

violates the following ayat:

19:65. "Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship: knowest thou of any whose name is worthy to be mentioned side by side with His?"

Do you see how Allah's and Muhammad's names are side by side? The juxatposing of Allah's and Muhammad's names in the above manner or are even mentioning there names in the same sentance is haram.

lifutushi · 08-04-2004, 08:07 AM

Assalamualaykum....

there are three categories of sunnah:

1) Sunnah that interprets the Qur'an (most importants sunnah)

2) Sunnah that confirms the Qur'an

3) Independent sunnah (very few)

Al-Qur'an mentions the ibadah in 'mujmal' or general form. for example:

Qur'an tells us to perform salah, but only through the sunnah we know how to perform salah.

the same goes to saum/fasting, zakah and many more...

i once met an anti-sunnah person in a restaurant. he told me that we shouldn't rely on sunnah but the Qur'an only. then i told him that he is eating the haram food, because his food consists of rice and fish. i told him that the fish had not been slaughtered, so it is haram. he then replied that fish does not need to be slaughtered. then i asked him, which of the ayah of the Qur'an says so? it is the sunnah that tells us the fish does not require slaughtering.....

how irony it was....

THE_ICONOCLAST · (This post was last modified: 08-04-2004, 02:44 PM by THE_ICONOCLAST.)

Salaamun

***there are three categories of sunnah:

1) Sunnah that interprets the Qur'an (most importants sunnah)

2) Sunnah that confirms the Qur'an

3) Independent sunnah (very few)***

Would you please, if you don't mind, post for us the ayat from Allah's Qur'an which says:

A) there are three categories of sunnah:

1) Sunnah that interprets the Qur'an (most importants sunnah)

2) Sunnah that confirms the Qur'an

3) Independent sunnah (very few)

B) there is a "sunnah of the prohet".

Allah says that, there are only two sunnahs:

1. Sunnah of Allah
.

2. Sunnah of the Ancients
.

Qutuz · 08-04-2004, 05:01 PM

you need to understand the mentality of these people sister Radiyah.

they denounce Hadith and soon they will start denouncing some verses from the Quran....they are not for Islam..they are for the west and so they denounce Hadiths so the west would love them as they are for example denoucning prophet Mohammed harsh words against adultery (we all know that adultery is about personal freed..DUH!! LONG LIVE WESTERN VALUES!!!!)

but i wonder when will they start denoucning verses like for example the verse which order the theives hands to be chopped!!

oh..and they have the most lovely interpertion of Quran ever...EVER!!!

these people are no different from secularists and communists and Zionists and Protestants and Nationlaists...but they maybe a bit more dangerous though.

Lightuponlight · (This post was last modified: 08-04-2004, 05:20 PM by Lightuponlight.)

Thieves have to have their hands chopped?

You sure?

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/theft.htm

Instead of resorting to ad hominem arguments, why not attempt to refute our arguments?

Qutuz · 08-04-2004, 05:35 PM

sorry i was wrong then..got to admit...

i said "and soon they will start denouncing some verses from the Quran." and the fact is that they already started denouncing verses from Quran.

what can i say!!

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ

Lightuponlight · 08-04-2004, 05:38 PM

When have I ever denounced verses from the Quran, what are you talking about!?

Qutuz · 08-04-2004, 05:43 PM

denouncing is not just about denying that the verse was even revealed.....denouncing can be in the form of ignoring the VERY CLEAR MEANING of the verse....

p.s: i want to inform you about a rule i follow brother....i ignore articles which is taken from sites like free-minds and progressive Islam and the rest of Abdollah Ibn Saba~a Ltd. websites..so don't wait for arguments or refutations fro me (and i wish from everyone else too)....one of this sites had a picture of a half nude girl on its front page beside quotes from Quran while the other one is a vicious enemy of Hijab (and Islam in general).

Lightuponlight · 08-04-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:denouncing is not just about denying that the verse was even revealed.....denouncing can be in the form of ignoring the VERY CLEAR MEANING of the verse....

if that's the case, then you have denounced many verses.

Quote:p.s: i want to inform you about a rule i follow brother....i ignore articles which is taken from sites like free-minds and progressive Islam and the rest of Abdollah Ibn Saba~a Ltd. websites..so don't wait for arguments or refutations fro me (and i wish from everyone else too)....one of this sites had a picture of a half nude girl on its front page beside quotes from Quran while the other one is a vicious enemy of Hijab (and Islam in general).

firstly, I am a sister.

Secondly, if you continue to implement this rule of yours, you will be in contempt of 49-6, to wit:

O ye who believe! If a wicked person/fasiq comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth/investigate it, lest ye harm a people in ignorance, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done. 49-6

As per this verse, we/you have no right to disregard/ignore those who bring us reports. My reports must be ascertained for the truth, if not, then they must PROVEN to be inaccurate, lest YOU harm a people in ignorance, then, be SORRY for what YOU have done.

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