French Deny Visa Over Head Scarf

[Khairan]

Muslimah one specific incident I refer to is the following:

When the Muslim woman who was being mistreated by her husband came to the Prophet and requested a divorce, she was denied several times because the Prophet did not think the request was appropriate, and that it would be better for her to work out her differences with her husband. Finally, the verse came to him that said "We have heard the argument of the woman who came to you" -- and proceeded to lay down divorce laws for women. In this instance, the Prophet was wrong in his judgement and was corrected by Scriptural revelation.

As far as instances where the right thing to do isn't clear, well we just talked about one -- covering the head for women.

Here's a more serious one: a death sentence for apostates. A great number of Muslims will swear by this. I think it's obscene, and it isn't at all a universally accepted concept.

Punishment for homosexuality: according to at least one school of Sunni law, the punishment is death. According to another, the practice should be discouraged but the guilty parties should not be punished at all and their final judgement left to God.

You mentioned salat. Muslims don't all offer their prayers in the same way, and don't even agree as to how many times a day they should be performed (Shias do three while Sunnis do five).

There is debate as to whether suicide bombing is a permissible tactic in war.

Muslims disagree as to whether non-Muslims will all go to Hell.

This isn't just "interpreting the Qur'an according to our needs." These are major differences sometimes, and especially when we are talking about things like the life and death of other people, they aren't just idiosyncrasies of one group's religious practice. So, how on earth can you claim that the right thing to do is obvious?

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

Brother, I believe that your confusion in matters is a result of a lack of knowledge on your part. I readily admit that I, too, lack knowledge of this deen. Have you gone to any schools to elevate your knowledge level? Maybe this would help clear up some issues. If your knowledge is self taught then this might be a reason why you have so many questions. A teacher is necessary in order to make sure that a level of understanding is obtained before moving to the next level. A child who is told to learn mathematics independently will only end up confused. One must start with basics before graduating to algebra or even calculus. Like I stated before, there are questions that I have but it is not a lack in the deen but rather a lack of my knowledge of the deen.

As for the head covering, why are you still claiming that this issue is unclear when a native arabic speaker just explained it to you? I am assuming you do not speak arabic, so this will be a major obstacle in achieving a deeper level of the deen that it seems you are seeking. The english interpretation of the Qur'an is poor at best. There is a reason that it was revealed in arabic, deeper meanings of words which need paragraphs to explain in english. Once again, I advise seeking out a halaqa at least or maybe even a school to attend to help you in your quest. The American Open University has correspondence courses and I know people who were quite pleased with the education they recieved there.

Insha'Allah this has been of some help.

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Khairan]

Dan, all of the things I've raised above are not necessarily personal questions that I have. My point, which you guys don't seem to be getting, is that these are all issues ON WHICH DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES OF MUSLIMS DIFFER.

As I said in another post, I agree that based on the use of the word khimr, it seems pretty obvious to me that headscarves are mandatory. BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES.

You are of course correct that some of these differences can be resolved through greater knowledge, but ultimately all information that comes into our minds is subject to interpretation, and simply "learning more" will not answer all of these questions. Muslims have had 1400 years to "learn more," and there are more divisions in the Muslim community now than ever. And what's more -- I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

A study of history will show you that human cultures need to change constantly -- cultures that don't stagnate, sicken, and die. The Qur'an itself says that God could have made humanity all one people, but chose not to so that we could learn from one another through our differences. I am not trying to say that the Qur'an is outdated or that Muslims should abandon their principles in order to keep up with the world. What I am saying is that a certain degree of flexibility is not only allowed but in fact suggested by Islam itself.

[Rasha]

aslaams

fenche just hate us muslim that's all. may god turn them to the light.

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

I agree the Islam is flexible... on some issues like driving cars, going to the bathroom inside, and many, many other issues that have sprung up as a result of technology. On other issues, I don't think it is. The hijab is one. If I think a certain way on an issue and am backed by valid daleel, then what does it matter that others differ? They will be accountable to Allah just as I will.

I state my opinion and leave it at that. If people do not accept it, then I leave it alone. But that does not mean that I feel that they are correct. What is the purpose of a belief that is not solid? If Shiahs pray three times a day, it does not mean that I agree with them. I firmly believe that one MUST pray five times a day. Now if people want to adhere to the Shiah way then that is on them.

I guess my point is that my faith is hollow if I believe that all these different opinions are okay. Why would I then not just follow the easiest path for all of them? If they are all acceptable then why should I not do this? For me, it makes the heart weak.

I came to Islam because I believe it to be Truth. I hold certain views because I believe those to be truth within the Truth.

I also have lived in communities that argue about the validity of the hijab and men and women mixing. Most of these arguments are based solely on the nafs of these people. They have a desire that they want to fulfill so they peruse the religion looking for loopholes. When they find an ayat or hadith that can be twisted to conform to thier belief then they state that Islam backs their changes. Instead we as muslims should be constantly seeking what Allah Wills us to do first and live by that.

I also must state that I am not by any means suggesting that you do such things or are one of these type of people. I just want to make that clear. I am not labeling you in anyway either in this post or in my own head. Please forgive me for my shortcomings. May Allah Forgive me.

Alhamdulillah we are muslims

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Ibn_kumuna]

Salaam Alaikum!

I agree that Muslims need to advocate change, but this change must come from within Islam. Most advocates for change have been slurping up liberal arguments and structures, which are redolent of desultory and lazy intellectualism ( or lack thereof) in the Islamic world.

Instead of inhaling liberal points Muslims would do well to question some of the perpetuated assumption about liberal democracy.

--Ibn

[Shereen]

some people can never learn

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom brother Khairan

Insh a Allah I will start a new thread taking the points u raised, except the head cover, which as Dan told u, was explained, may be also will add the Ayahs from Quran.

Insh aAllah will cover the points one by one

[Muslimah]

Muslimah one specific incident I refer to is the following:When the Muslim woman who was being mistreated by her husband came to the Prophet and requested a divorce, she was denied several times because the Prophet did not think the request was appropriate, and that it would be better for her to work out her differences with her husband.  Finally, the verse came to him that said \"We have heard the argument of the woman who came to you\" -- and proceeded to lay down divorce laws for women.  In this instance, the Prophet was wrong in his judgement and was corrected by Scriptural revelation.

As far as instances where the right thing to do isn't clear, well we just talked about one -- covering the head for women.

Here's a more serious one: a death sentence for apostates.  A great number of Muslims will swear by this.  I think it's obscene, and it isn't at all a universally accepted concept.

Punishment for homosexuality: according to at least one school of Sunni law, the punishment is death.  According to another, the practice should be discouraged but the guilty parties should not be punished at all and their final judgement left to God.

You mentioned salat.  Muslims don't all offer their prayers in the same way, and don't even agree as to how many times a day they should be performed (Shias do three while Sunnis do five).

There is debate as to whether suicide bombing is a permissible tactic in war.

Muslims disagree as to whether non-Muslims will all go to Hell.

This isn't just \"interpreting the Qur'an according to our needs.\"  These are major differences sometimes, and especially when we are talking about things like the life and death of other people, they aren't just idiosyncrasies of one group's religious practice.  So, how on earth can you claim that the right thing to do is obvious?

as salam alykom

As brother khairan brought up these points on another thread we saw to start a new one to bring up the explanation Insh aAllah

[Shereen]

<i>well this action of France if very stupid & with no logic..........but at the same time i feel 4 the Christins & Jews .......who'll not able to wear their religious symbols too........ :confused: </i>