The Evil within us, from whom?

[radiyah]

Bismillah

the evil in this world is there for Allah to test the believers. Surely the path the Jannah (heaven) will be filled with trials and tests. Some of these tests come in form of temptations that Shaitaan (Satan) uses to try and lure peolpe over to his side.

So music and hearts come from Satan?
Or does the fear of them come from Satan?


I am not sure I understand your answer.


Also, evil never comes from God, imo. To say such a thing makes God evil. Atheists make this claim repeatedly as to why God does not exist.

Alhamdulilah for everything, I ask guidance from Allah(SWT), The One and Only True Creator, and all praise and blessings upon His last Messanger and Seal of Prophets.


With full respect to my brother Mohsie, I appreciate his input and effort to respond, but The evil in this world is not from Allah(SWT), but it is from ourselves and shaytan, that is why we always say " if we are right from Allah(SWT), and if we are wrong it is from ourselves and shaytan. We cannot say the evil is from Allah(SWT), Allah forbid, the evil depends on our actions wether we chose the good path or the evil path, so if you chose the good path, then Allah(SWT) will reward you for that choice in this world and hereafter, and if you chose the wrong or evil path, then Allah(SWT) will treat u as such to what YOU have chosen, below are 2 verses which explains that meaning:


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


78:"Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you even if you are in fortresses built up strong and high!" And if some good reaches them, they say, "This is from Allâh," but if some evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you (O Muhammad SAW)." Say: "All things are from Allâh," so what is wrong with these people that they fail to understand any word?



79:"Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allâh, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allâh is Sufficient as a Witness." (An-Nisa 4)


Now in verse 78, it talks about the evil it happens to us, but this verse specifically was revealed after the battle of Uhud, many muslims died and the battle was lost in the begining, and the hyppocrittes in the Madinah, started to blame Prophet Muhammad for this loss, Allah(SWT) explanis in the begining of the verses that death will come to u even if u are in the highest fortress, and if evil comes to u or shortcomings it is from Allah(SWT) but that evil depends on your actions. Then Allah(SWT) completes with the next verse to show, that the evil if it comes to u it depends on your actions, because on that day of Uhud, the wariors did not listen to what prophet Muhammad ordered them to do, so the loss and the evil that was upon you from your own self and choice, but it is also a test from Allah(SWT) to teach muslims a lesson that You as a human you are the One who has the right to decide for yourself, Good and Evil is written for you from Allah(SWT) but it depends on your choice, if you are in an ordeal then return to yourself and see what you have done, if you did any evil or wrong actions, or even treating people in a bad manner, then it is up to you to correct yourself and chose the right path which Allah(SWT) rewards you for it.


It is just like when you are in school, or work, if u study and do good then you will succeed and reach highest ranks and will be highly rewarded, otherwise, if you are lazy, do not study or work hard, then it is your loss. Your boss will either give u a grade and raise or not, and same in our daily deeds, Allah(SWT) will reward us according to our good or evil deeds.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


7. And by Nafs (Adam or a person or a soul, etc.), and Him Who perfected him in proportion;



8. Then He showed him what is wrong for him and what is right for him;


9. Indeed he succeeds who purifies his ownself (i.e. obeys and performs all that Allâh ordered, by following the true Faith of Islâmic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds).


10. And indeed he fails who corrupts his ownself (i.e. disobeys what Allâh has ordered by rejecting the true Faith of Islâmic Monotheism or by following polytheism, etc. or by doing every kind of evil wicked deeds). , 91, Surat As Shams


Alhamdulilah that Allah(SWT) used us as His slaves, if we are right from Allah(SWT) if we are wrong it is from ourselves and shaytan.


If my answer is still not clear, or u do not understand, and u need more clarification, please Steve do not hesitate to ask :), all the best.


Peace

[mohsie]

Sister Radiyah, JazaakAllah Khair for that clarification. That is what I meant... that is why I specifically didn't use the phrase "from Allah"... I just said that the evil is there, whether from Shaytan or from our own selves. :)


However, another point to keep in mind is that everything, even the evil, happens with the PERMISSION of Allah. For example, in the story of Prophet Ayyoob (as), when Shaytaan wanted to harm to harm him, he always had to ask Allah for permission first. So the evil thought was from Shaytan, but he could only do his evil with the permission of Allah so Allah may test Prophet Ayyoob (as) and show Shaytaan that His Prophet (as) is a true believer. I hope that is more clear inshaAllah. :)

[Steve Consilvio]

Sister Radiyah, JazaakAllah Khair for that clarification. That is what I meant... that is why I specifically didn't use the phrase "from Allah"... I just said that the evil is there, whether from Shaytan or from our own selves. :)


However, another point to keep in mind is that everything, even the evil, happens with the PERMISSION of Allah. For example, in the story of Prophet Ayyoob (as), when Shaytaan wanted to harm to harm him, he always had to ask Allah for permission first. So the evil thought was from Shaytan, but he could only do his evil with the permission of Allah so Allah may test Prophet Ayyoob (as) and show Shaytaan that His Prophet (as) is a true believer. I hope that is more clear inshaAllah. :)

ah, but is the story of the Prophet Ayyoob an example of what to do, or an example of what not to do?


In the Old Testament, Moses kills one one the guards who mistreats the Hebrews. Because this is known, he flees. Yet God still chooses him to return and free the Jews from their bondage. Some would say that because this violence is in the Bible, therefore it is "okay" to be violent. I look at it differently, the Scriptures are full of examples (confessions really) of the mistakes that people have made, and they are documented so we can learn from them.


I see all scripture as three things simultaneously, since they all come from one God. They are Description, Instruction and Prediction. It is very important to know what you are reading. If you take a Description of error as Instruction, then you go off and repeat the error. I think this phenomenom is at the heart of all religious conflict.

[radiyah]

Bismillah

ah, but is the story of the Prophet Ayyoob an example of what to do, or an example of what not to do?
In the Old Testament, Moses kills one one the guards who mistreats the Hebrews. Because this is known, he flees. Yet God still chooses him to return and free the Jews from their bondage. Some would say that because this violence is in the Bible, therefore it is "okay" to be violent. I look at it differently, the Scriptures are full of examples (confessions really) of the mistakes that people have made, and they are documented so we can learn from them.

Now I underlined Moses kills, here we differ in the way of killing. In The Holy Quran, it tells the story of Moses(PBUH) killing the guard, but Allah(SWT) mentioned the truth of how the guard was killed, it was not by violence, but by mistake, since Moses(PBUH) was strong and had strong muscles, he just pushed the gaurd with no INTENTION of killing, that made the gaurd fall down his head struck a stone or any hard object and he died due to that hit, and not because Prophet Moses(PBUH), did have any intention of killing or murder.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


14. And when he attained his full strength, and was perfect (in manhood), We bestowed on him Hukman (Prophethood, right judgement of the affairs) and religious knowledge [of the religion of his forefathers i.e. Islâmic Monotheism]. And thus do We reward the Muhsinûn (i.e. good doers - see the footnote of V.9:120).



15. And he entered the city at a time of unawareness of its people, and he found there two men fighting, - one of his party (his religion - from the Children of Israel), and the other of his foes. The man of his (own) party asked him for help against his foe, so Mûsa (Moses) struck him with his fist and killed him. He said: "This is of Shaitân's (Satan) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy."


16. He said: "My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me." Then He forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful. 28, Surat Al-Qasas


The underlined in The Holy Quran in arabic is <b>" Fa-wakazaho Musa Fa-gada a'layh"</b> Wakaz in arabic language means to push with a fist. So it differs when one comes to a man with the intention of killing with full violence, killing men women children and so on, than one who came to help a friend by just pushing an enemy. So no it is not an excuse to be violent without a just reason, and even in a just reason u must be fair and not violent. Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) ordered his wariors to call the other warior to islam before fighting, if the other warior accepted he will leave him and not fight him, but if not and insisted on fighting then he will continue fighting him. And that only in war, if in peace there will be no fighting, we will call for Islam accepted, you are welcome, u did not, there is no compulsion in relegion.


The Prophets in The Quran, yes they made mistakes, and so did our Prophet Muhmmad, but not sins, and that is to show us and teach us, since they are prophets from Allah(SWT) that no one is perfect except The Only and One Creator, He is The Only One With no Fault or sin or mistake:


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). <b>There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.</b>



12. To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth, He enlarges provision for whom He wills, and straitens (it for whom He wills). Verily! He is the All-Knower of everything. 42, Surat Al-Shura


255. Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]
2, Surat Al-Baqara.


No one and nothing is like Him, Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, from whomever or whatever they ascribe to Him. So the purpose of prophets making mistakes is only natural to show the human nature, which is totally different from The Creator, and it is a lesson, that if we make mistakes, we should resort to The One and Only ILAH(Creator), to frgive our mistakes sins or shortcomings, putting in our minds, that Prophets do make mistakes, but they are not sinners, other wise why should I follow a Prophet who is a sinner, and I am not one. There are humans who did not commit severe sins in their lives, yes they made mistakes maybe many mistakes, but not sins, this will make me better than a prophet then, so why should I follow him. I hope you got my point Steve, and the difference of a mistake and sin, that a prophet would commit or not.


Peace

[Steve Consilvio]

Either way, Moses laid hands on the guard, for which he had no need to do. The guard was not in charge of Moses; Moses was interfering. Moses was the agressor, (and wrong) even if his intentions were good. Since this was before when the Commandments were handed down, one can easily surmise that he was not subject to them like we are. Nevertheless, by today's moral standards he was wrong, even if he didn't know it to be. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.


Also, I "vehemently" (in a kindly way) disagree that God gives permission for evil to exist. God does not control everything and everyone. We have free will. We act goodly or badly based on our freewill (and wisdom.) If God controls me, then how can I choose to serve him? It doesn't make sense.

[Dan]

Bismillah


This sounds like this is leading to a discussion of qadr. I apologize for my limited time of just popping in and out. Anyone want to get this discussion started or bring up an old thread?


As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


I agree Steve, Mussa was wrong that is why he said:"So he became afraid, looking about in the city (waiting as to what will be the result of his crime of killing), when behold, the man who had sought his help the day before, called for his help (again). Moses said to him: "Verily, you are a plain misleader!" (Quran 28:18) and that is what Radiyah also said when posted the previous two Ayahs starting 15-16


look at 16 when he said; He said: "This is of Shaitân's (Satan) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy


Now as for the source of evil and how to percieve it, Insh a Allah i will be back for more.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Praise be to Allah Creator of skies and Earth Owner of the Kingdom, prayer and peace be upon His Messenger Mohamed and all prophets and messengers.


May Allah Assist and support me with proper argument and evidences ameen


Let me try Insh a Allah to further add to what sister Radiyah and brother mohsie brought here.


When Allah Say in Quran 79:"Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allâh, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allâh is Sufficient as a Witness." (An-Nisa 4)


In this verse when Allah is referring to the evil befalling us being from ourselves, Allah Means that we caused it to ourselves, rather than making it happen or creating it. We cannt create evil. Like human beings cannt for instance make a tsunami happen can we??


Or an earthquake or a hurricane? But Allah certainly Can and Is Capable of?


We must again I stress must differentiate between us being eligible for or deserve the evil or let us be more precise the test or tribulation, and between creating it and making it happen?


Another more explanatory Ayah in this regard would be:” And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much.” (Quran 42:30)


In this ayah it is clearly stated that misfortunes and tribulations are not but let us say like a salary deduction or delay of a promotion, E or F grade. We skipped work, we didn’t observe deadlines, we went to the movies instead of going to work, thus we deserve the deduction just exactly as Radiyah said in this regard. But the difference is that we don’t create the tribulations. To make it easier to understand, Allah also say:” Jihad is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.” (Quran 2:216).


As such, if we review the previously mentioned noble ayahs, we can somehow form a picture on the concept of evil, let us say tests and tribulations. It might appear hard that one dislikes it, yet Allah brings through it a great deal of good just like in the following Ayah.


Although the Ayahs is specifically talking about marriage and women, but then when Allah explains the disliking part, then it turns general.


Insh aAllah I d rather go step by step on this issue not to make the post long enough to be left without reading.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


In order to try and cover all aspects of the subject, as we mentioned above, tests and tribulations and earned due to our deeds. This is the core of interest here.


The evil we do, or to be more specific wrong actions and sins are the fruit of two evil forces mankind are subjected to. Self and satan. As Radiyah posted the Ayah:


“8. Then He showed him what is wrong for him and what is right for him;


Therefore we are commanded to fight ourselves in order to adhere to what Allah Commanded us to observe. The choice is ours just like satan when he decided to disobey Allah and refuse to prostrate to Adam as Allah Commanded, he dared to challenge Allah to turn mankind astray. Thus, since then we face those two pulling forces towards evil and we have to fight. If we didn’t have the choice, it would have been unfair for Allah to hold u accountable.


However, when we commit a sin, this sin is not induced upon us by Allah but as I said it is the fruit of either devilish or self wrong inspiration. Allah Being the All Knowing and already has knowledge about this, does not make Allah the one Who pushed us thru this road.


It is like you having a child who spends evening going to movies, and meeting friends. You come to him/her and say very confidently you are not going to make the exam you are having an f and if u do, no pocket money or movies for a month, which of course happens later. Did you make him score the f? did you force the punishment on him/her or he/she earned it????