What is Islam??????????????

[SisterJennifer]

Hi again HabibHibee,

A quick question: Where do you get the idea that Islam teaches intolerance to people of other faiths? You did mention at the beginning of this thread that you were going to stick to the Quran as your sorce. However, the factors you are giving have no backing from the Quran and seem to be based only on the observance of a select group of individuals. Which, unfortunately are the ones they seek out for American news broadcasts.

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by SisterJennifer </i><b>Hi again HabibHibee,</b>

A quick question:  Where do you get the idea that Islam teaches intolerance to people of other faiths?  You did mention at the beginning of this thread that you were going to stick to the Quran as your sorce.  However, the factors you are giving have no backing from the Quran and seem to be based only on the observance of a select group of individuals.  Which, unfortunately are the ones they seek out for American news broadcasts.

Thanks,

Jennifer

I really only have the internet as a resource but I have seen various translations (haddiths ?) about shunning non believers, non believers going to hell etc. Although, in my limited experience of muslims, I don't find that to be the case. I can rummage around again and look for specific verses it's just I didn't take note of them.

[AhmedSyed]

Plez Habib, show us the hadiths that you have questions about.

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b>Plez Habib, show us the hadiths that you have questions about. </b>

Does this ring true ?

<b>004.089 </b>

YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

PICKTHAL: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

SHAKIR: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Although the context is not given there is a clear message in there.

Here is another example,

The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee'ah.

<b></b>

The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee'ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

It is well-known in Sharee’ah that the punishments (hudood) are not carried out on minors, because they have not yet reached the age of responsibility; but in the case of those who have reached the age of responsibility, the punishment (hadd) applies, without a doubt.

So as an ideology, Islam does not (seem to) offer much room for an alternative viewpoint. This is where it crosses the line between a religion and a regime.

[Muslimah]

as salam a`alaman itaba`alhoda

I am so surprised Habib to see someone like u with much insight failing to see the point as it is supposed to be seen in the Ayah's you brought. BTW, these are verses from Quran and not hadeeth. The verse is so clealry describing the category which we are commanded to stay away from, those who wish that we leave our religion and join their's simply because deep inside them they know that Islam is truth yet for various reasons (not our core of interest now) they can not joing. Like an employee who prefers not attend work everyday and thus shall be punished somehow or the other, usually he/ she tries to distract others so as not to be alone in the punishment. Or a student who has difficulty in studying, usually likes to keep others busy with him/her doing other stuff so that when he / she fails will not suffer alone. Just the same idea. Will u when u realize this fact still keep friends with this type of people?? Iguess not, u will simply run away, and if they insist on doing this to you, you will be very firm in cutting ties, am I not right???????:confused:

[Guest]

Well, the text does not exactly say "Stay away". The verses actually advocate killing people. That I find more than a little troubling. :eek:

Now, I don't believe for 1 second that the 1.2 billion muslims worldwide would go out and kill someone because they were not following Islam. No, only a tiny, tiny wee fraction of extremists in certain conditions would take things so literally and sadly it does happen. However, this type of verse is ammunition for intolerance.

But just to balance things out, I have also seen verses that contradict 4:089. I don't have the verse numbers to hand. But this leaves me wondering, what is going on here ?

[Muslimah]

Sobhan Allah Habib, I never expected u to lack objectivity, why don';t read just one more verse, 4:90 it will explain the context ok. Or u prefer to take what u want to see only:confused: :confused: :confused: !!!!!!!

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>Sobhan Allah Habib, I never expected u to lack objectivity, why don';t read just one more verse, 4:90 it will explain the context ok. Or u prefer to take what u want to see only:confused: :confused: :confused: !!!!!!! </b>

Well, gee, it's written there, in black and white right ? How objective must I be ? I mean, what other context is there ? Although you may not be taking things literally to the extent of harming someone who is non Muslim, it would still imply (as you stated earlier) that you were not to associate with non Muslims for fear of some kind of who knows what ? Hey I extract myself from the company of idiots all the time, rarely because of their religious beliefs but because their idiots !