Who created God

[dattaswami]

Again you beg the question, you have not proven a god exists, he is beyond our comprehension? Then how can you comprehend a god exists? This makes no logical sense at all.


Nothing is beyond logic, logic is axiomatic like mathematics. 2+2 =4 no matter how you approach it. Also logic is axiomatic something cannot exist, and not exist at the same time. That is a paradox and paradoxes only exist in mind and on paper, they are logical impossible.


Yes there is that which is impossible such as I noted above and many, many more.


Peace to you,


Voice of Reason

Voice of reason; thank for the reply


I told you already, God is beyond our imagination and your logic cannot touch Him. You can imagine anything in this world which is a created item only. You can use scientific methods to conclude and analyse that each created items is <b>not God.</b>
Thus science helps in eliminating the itmes <b>which are not God. </b>



Now your awareness or soul is a created item only. But it is the finest item of the creation. By advanced medical science and instrument you can even see this awarenss which is the energy flowing in the nervous system. But it is not God, even though the awareness is very very difficult to imagine and only scholars with very sharp intelligence can do it, but it is not God. It is a created item of the God. Also it requires space to exits.


When current passes through a wire, we can say that wire occupies space, and inturn the current occupies space and hence sapce is a pre-requisite for current. Like wise the awareness or soul require a medium for its existance and hence it is not God .


God created space first, also He created energy first. This means that sapce and energy are equivaent and co-exist. All other items of this world are the modification of this energy only.


You yourself are with in the space time frame work how can you go beyond this creation and imagine the creator the God. It does not mean that God do not exists. God exits and since it is His duty to give His existance, He is coming in Human form so that one can experience Him and His existance through that Human Incarnation. But one cannot understand Him, because He is beyond your comprehension. Remember that the existance of Lord is proven through the Human Incarnation who comes in every Human generation to preach and uplift the human souls through His special divine knowledge.


<b> No body sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium. Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no any way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced. </b>

[dattaswami]

Bismillah:


I just would like to repeat what brother Deen have said earlier that the question itself is incorrect, it is like you are telling me that <i>‘today my brother Tom give birth, can you tell me whether the child is boy or a girl?”</i> <b>it is absurdity.</b>


However, for those who say<i> ‘we do not believe in God’</i> they must at least tell us what is the definition of that God!! For a person to say there is no God, he should at least know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognize or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, <b>he should at least know the concept of God. </b>


Salam


Wael

wel_mel;


<b>The atheist says that God does not exist. For him God is nothing i.e., vacant space. This is the first stage. When he sees miracles he becomes the believer in God. He accepts God as some power or energy. The power or energy is also formless, like vacant space. So the concept of God is near to his previous concept and thus the atheist (Scientist) accepts the formless (Nirakara) God very easily. </b>The third stage is God with form (Sakara). In this stage statues in the human form are introduced. The training is given to do the sixteen upacharas (services) to these statues in human form. This training indicates that they have to worship the God in human form in this way. Like this you are slowly trained to worship the human form of the God by the sixteen upacharas. In this training when your egoism and jealousy is completely destroyed now the human form of the God is introduced.


Whatever I preached here is having the best practical proof. Hanuman, the greatest of the human beings in this world worshipped Rama only who was a living human being in his time. He did not go down i.e.; he never meditated upon the formless God or the statues. In Valmiki Ramayana such things are not mentioned. He never worshipped even previous human incarnations like ‘Vamana’. He worshipped only the human incarnation present in his generation.


Similarly Radha never worshipped ‘Rama’ but worshipped only Krishna who was the human incarnation of her generation. As per Bhagavatham Radha also never worshipped the statues or the formless God. Hanuman became Brahma and Radha became the queen of the 15th World ‘Goloka’. No body in this world will attain a better position than these two. So your spiritual journey must end in recognizing the human incarnation of God present in your generation. God is impartial and so He comes down in human form in every generation. If you say Lord Krishna is only the latest incarnation, then that generation was blessed and God became partial. Therefore God is coming in human form in every human generation. People are not recognizing Him because after the incarnation of Krishna the egoism and jealousy are growing continuously in all the human beings. The man did not recognize the God coming in human form after Krishna. After Krishna and before ‘Kalki’ is ‘Kaliyuga’. Due to the influence of the ‘Kali’ people are full of egoism and jealousy and so they cannot recognize the human form of God in ‘Kaliyuga’.


<b>God comes in different human forms in the same time in various levels for the sake of devotees in various levels. He comes as a schoolteacher for the school students, as a lecturer for the college students and as a Professor for the post graduate students. Since the school students and college students are large in number he comes down as a number of schoolteachers and college lecturers. Such incarnations are called as ‘Amsavataras’, which mean the incarnations of a small portion of His power. The incarnation of His radiation is called ‘Kalavatara’ which is the formless God like light worshipped by some believers. The light travels as waves and the Siva Linga in the temple represents this formless God. Since the Post graduation students are less in number only one professor comes down and He is the ‘Pari poorna tamavathara’ i.e., the most complete incarnation, which reveals the final true knowledge. He is called ‘Satguru’ or the original Datta in the human form. </b>


Datta exists in two forms. 1) The three headed form. 2) One headed form. The three headed form indicates ‘Para brahma’ (God) who creates, rules and destroys the Universe by His three faces. The other single headed form is the external human form in which the three-headed form exists as the internal form, which is not seen. This is the essence of the ‘Eka Mukha Datta’ (One headed from) and ‘Trimukha Datta’ (The three headed form). Therefore the Schoolteacher shows miracles and converts the atheist into theist. The college lecturer trains the theists in the worship of the statues having human form to remove ego and jealousy in the man and make him a devotee. <b>The last university professor gives the final true knowledge that God comes down in human form only and that He (the professor) Himself is God. </b>

[dattaswami]

Bismillah


salam


I felt that I m moved to give an input. I waited for sometime trying to see what datt, has to offer. I was alway anxious to know more how hinus go with their faith.


I was stopped at two positions the most.


First like my brother deen was also caught by surprise the fact that god created this universe for entertainment. Like god had nothing to do, thus suddenly decided o well, let me create the universe. However, when u study the creation of the universe, and here when I refer to universe I mean all. Everything, how can god create earth, then pin it down with mountains that protects it against flying off or moving under our feet. Just one example. How can this be for entertainment. While if the GOD was only seeking entertainment from the creation, what would motivate me to take anything serious during my short transit trip here on earth?


God should be understood as the unimaginable creator. Next God can be understood as the unimaginable spectator of the world.



As for this statement which is obviously something like part of the fundamental of the faith. Sobhan Allah (just in case Voice of reason would wonder this means Glory be to Allah), i m really amazed how can he build his faith, I mean if u r directing people as to how to understand god, the first part says that he is the unimaginable creator. But concurrently he is only a spectator. Wow, how can a creator assume only a spectator role. la hawla wala qowata ila billah (no mighty or power unless by Allah). For intance I feel really comfortable and secure to know and be sure that my Creator Allah, jala wa al`a is the All Alive, One Who does not sleep for a fraction of a second, The Eternal The Protector, and much more. Obviously, One Who Possesses all thos attributes can not be merely a spectator. A spectator, if I understand english, is one who just sits to watch, one who is not charged with a vital role, but rather watching the players do their job whereever it is. Even in the modern time as the language is evolving, terms like key players are now used in the context of important elements in any given domain: political, investment, economic..etc. So datt made his god not even in the rank of a key player but just a spectator. If the creator does nothing but watch, then who runs the universe, I wonder?


:conf06:

Muslimah thank you for your interest in divine knowldge;


Lord created this entire universe for His entertainment. Now you are questioning it. GOD has give full and equal freedom to all the souls in this world. Since freedom is there, the results follows the actions. Both positive and negative. Thus the state of any human soul in this world is his own work only. But God is the result giver.


Now, when you are enjoying with your family, kids, good food, good neighbours, good nature, good friends, good job, good health, that time are putting this question to Lord? Unless Lord play this cinema whether you will be able to enjoy?


Suffering in this world for any soul is for its transformation only, so that he should not repeat the same thing, this also Lord do as a last resort only. God is imaprtial and He punishes without any angriness, because all the souls are His children only, the Father sees their welfare.


Now you are wondering about this entertainment of Lord?


<b> The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. </b>


A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes. But the cat is watching the rat and catches it again whenever the rat is out of the limits of the supervision. Similarly the Lord called “Kaala” (death) catches a human being and bites. The bite is the illness of the human being. The repeated diseases are the repeated bites of the ‘Kaala” or the Lord. During the bite the rat looses completely its independence. Similarly any human being, which is attacked by the disease becomes a patient and looses its independence completely.


The cat plays with the rat for sometime like this and finally swallowes the rat. Similarly, the human being is swallowed by the Lord at the end. <b>The whole creation itself is like a rat for the cat like Lord, which is told in Brahmasutra “Atta Charaachara Grahanaat”. Thus the short span of independence of human beings under the supervision of the overall controlling Lord, creates the full game and entertainment for the Lord. The entertainment is the basic reason of the creation by the Lord as said in Veda (Ekaaki Na Ramate) and as said in Brahmasutra (Lokavattu). Within the limits of the supervision of the cat, the rat will receive the result of the direction in which it runs. In one direction there may be fire and the rat may receive the heat. In another direction there may be cold water and the rat will receive the coolness in that direction. The rat is independent to receive the result of the direction and has full independence to go in any direction. The final death of the rat shows that the rat is under the control of the cat during its choice of direction also, which is not interfered by the cat. Similarly the human life is with full of independence but the final end proves that the independence is under the control of the Lord. Yet, since there was no interference of the Lord during the human life, the human being receives the results according to its actions. Thus the “whole game is perfectly justified in any angle”. </b>






Only right divine knowledge can remove the ignorance and uplift the souls.


At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami


Anil Antony


www.universal-spirituality.org


Universal Spirituality for World Peace


antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

[dattaswami]

Bismillah


salam


I felt that I m moved to give an input. I waited for sometime trying to see what datt, has to offer. I was alway anxious to know more how hinus go with their faith.


I was stopped at two positions the most.


First like my brother deen was also caught by surprise the fact that god created this universe for entertainment. Like god had nothing to do, thus suddenly decided o we........is god not even in the rank of a key player but just a spectator. If the creator does nothing but watch, then who runs the universe, I wonder?


:conf06:

The logic shows four types of authorities to decide any point. The first is perception (Pratyaksham), in which anything is directly experienced through senses in this world. The second is inference (Anumanam), in which anything is inferred based on a characteristic sign. For example, smoke is coming from a mountain and fire is inferred. In this authority also the perception is the basis because the relationship between fire and smoke is already perceived in the kitchen. The third authority is simile (Upamanam), in which an unseen animal is explained to us by comparing it with a known animal. Even here, the person who is explaining has seen both the animals and thus perception is the basis.


The fourth is the statement of a well-wisher (Shabdam), by which we believe the existence of an unseen item explained by our well-wisher. Here also perception is the basis because the well-wisher has seen that place. Therefore there is no authority, which is not based on perception. The scripture (Sruti), supporting scripture (Smruti), logic (Yukti) and finally the direct experience (Anubhava) are considered as the four stages of any authorized validity of a concept. The final stage of experience (Anubhava) is very important and forms the basis because it is again related to perception only. Therefore you cannot say anything which is beyond experience and perception.


<b>Even the unimaginable God (Parabrahman) is experienced through human form. In this case the experience may not be direct but the experience is through a medium (Human body). The experience is same whether it is direct or indirect. The heat from the fire is experienced directly and the same heat is experienced indirectly from a hot iron rod. This experience does not reveal the nature of Parabrahman because the experience is based on a characteristic sign of the medium only which is specific to the existence of the unimaginable God. Such characteristic sign is the specific special knowledge called as Prajnanam. The knowledge is the property of a specific quality (Sattvam), which is an associated property of awareness. Thus it is not the property of God and thus God is untouched by anyone. Due to His presence, this knowledge becomes special and wonderful by which we can infer the existence of God. The unimaginable knowledge indicates the unimaginable God. </b>






<b>Thus we have the perception of human incarnation in this world and thus God is perceived by us (Yat sakshat.., pratyagatmanamaikshat -Veda).</b>
Therefore science which is based on the perception is the basis of the spiritual knowledge. The human incarnation showing specialties is satisfying the basic perception. The unimaginable talents of the human incarnation indicating the unimaginable God are clearly perceived. <b>Therefore the unimaginable God is perceived but the unimaginability is not violated. </b>
To deny the unimaginable God is unscientific and shows only foolish rigidity.