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Jesus - amai - 05-26-2003
i think you're in a tight position in here.
1. name one of Zeus' daughter.
Aphrodite.
what do you call aphrodite?
a goddess.
then therefore, the male counterpart is god.
a god's son, is also god.
let's apply this to jesus:
Jesus is the Son of God.
therefore, He's God.
you say He's an angel.
i don't remember reading any verse from the Bible that says the "angels" are God's sons and daughters(?). they are His servant.
prophet? do you call mohammed a God? elijah? samuel?
no.
2. you say Jesus is a prophet. since He's a prophet, then He's not a liar. but He said He's the Son of God when in reality, He's just a prophet.
He lied, then therefore, He's not a prophet. your Quran said He's a prophet, but it's not true since Jesus lied. then what quran said was not true, Jesus wasn't a prophet, mohammed wasn't a prophet since He believed in a lie, then allah is no god.
3. since Jesus is a prophet, then He couldn't lie. He said He's the Son of God and that "God and I are one." since He's a prophet and that He couldn't lie, then what He said was true.
He said He was the promised Messish.
He's said He's the Son of God.
therefore, He's also God.
all of these are true....
since He can't lie.
because of He did lie, then Islam holds a lie.
that He's a prophet, but He lied.
if that's a lie, then Quran lied. Mohammed lied and Allah is non existent.
and yada yada yada. it goes on in circles.
but the point is: Jesus is God.
Jesus - Whisper - 05-26-2003
Please Keep Your opinions to Yourself. Do not Disrespect hadhrat Muhammed (PBUH). Anti Christ is Dajjal and will appear in the End of the days.
*Edited by Ali*
Jesus - SisterJennifer - 05-26-2003
The language spoken by Jesus was Aramic. It is my understanding that Aramic, Arabic, and Hebrew are closely related languages. Both in the text style, and in their sounds.
The mass was for quite a long time celebrated in Latin, a language Jesus himself was unfamiliar with, and very much unlike his Aramic tongue. Also, the Bible was not translated using the language spoken by Jesus and his companions.
The Bible refers also to David as 'God's son', and even the tribe of Israel as 'God's son'.
The fact that God is unlike anything we can imagine leads me to believe that his 'genetic material' is not going to be the same as anything in his creation. The creator is always greater than the creation. Therefore, I don't believe that God could parent a child in the traditional sense. Perhaps this translation of 'God's son' means something a little closer to 'God's creation,' or 'child of Adam' which would make it a phrase that applies to all of mankind.
Just something to consider.
Jesus - Whisper - 05-26-2003
Jennifer and to others,
Here is one example why Jesus is God,
Suppose I break a man's window, and the man wants to be both just and merciful towards me. What can he do?
He could pretend there is no loss, but that would go against the truth, because a window has been broken. He could make me pay for it, which would be just, but not merciful - especially if it costs more money than I have. He could make someone else pay for it, but that would be neither just nor merciful towards the other person.
So there is only one appoach left for him, isn't there?
He must suffer the loss himself.
Now, let me apply the old case of the judge and the thief to God and man, (take into account that we have all sinned)
The Judge (God) convicted the thief to a very high fine - and then stood up, drew his wallet, and because of their friendship, the Judge (God) paid it all. Is the Judge just and merciful, YES, in fact, it was noble behaviour.
Since NO person other than God can truly pay for the sins commited by man, even if we tried, we wouldn't be able to do it.
We as humans are under human law and so a legal payment would mean that God must become man to legally pay for human sins, and he did.
(Think of God as a pool full of water, when he suffered the loss for us, still the pool was full because God is infinite, always full, the loss wasn't actually a loss, it was meant as a lesson to humanity, God can do anything, God became man so as to provide humanity with a personal God, a God who walked physically with humans, ate and drank with them, and just like a human died physically.)
That's God and that's why Jesus Is God.
Jesus - Whisper - 05-26-2003
If you delete the above post or edit it, then I know what you are up to.
Jesus - SisterJennifer - 05-26-2003
Quote: We as humans are under human law and so a legal payment would mean that God must become man to legally pay for human sins, and he did.
[/quote:04f2c11d15]
[b:04f2c11d15]Matthew 5:17-20
Do not suppose that I came to do away with the Law of Moses and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning. Heaven and Earth may disappear, but I promise you not even a period or a comma will ever dissappear from the Law. Everything written in it must happen.
If you reject even the least important command in the Law and teach others to do the same, you will have the least important place in the kingdom of Heaven. But if you obey and teach others it's commands, you will have an important place in the kingdom. You must obey God's commands better than the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law do. If you don't, I promise you will never get into the kingdom of Heaven.[/b:04f2c11d15]
Jesus - Purgetory - 05-26-2003
ok amai, i have to say you make me laugh. your trying to prove that jesus is God by comparing Christianity by a greek mythology! yes, I see. Actualy, i agree with you. christianity is mostly taken from greek mythology. River styx is in Christianity and the greek mythology. the Ferry Man is greek for Charon. The Holy Spirit came as a swan and so did Zeus.
secondly, as much as i know of christianity, i believe that the example you gave is blasphemous to your own religion. Christianity claims that they believe in one god (which has 3 personalities? i even doubt that christians understand trinity properly), and aphrodiet and zeus are completely seperate.
you might as well as keep your mouth shut cause you dont know how to speak for your own religion. for god's sake, i can do better! :roll:
and also, we believe that Jesus is a human just like you and me. he is only a prophet.
Quote:i don't remember reading any verse from the Bible that says the "angels" are God's sons and daughters(?). they are His servant.[/quote:03246ced00]Ah yes, another christian going, "it is true because the bible says so". who the hell told you that the bible was a good source of information? your not the first christian here, and your not the first one to say that quote and its not the first time i say this, the bible is written by human hands. alot of the true words of god has been edited. so dont quote from the bible or i will, and if i do, i can make you convert to satanism.</div></blockquote>
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="241" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>2. you say Jesus is a prophet. since He's a prophet, then He's not a liar. but He said He's the Son of God when in reality, He's just a prophet. He lied, then therefore, He's not a prophet. your Quran said He's a prophet, but it's not true since Jesus lied. then what quran said was not true, Jesus wasn't a prophet, mohammed wasn't a prophet since He believed in a lie, then allah is no god.
3. since Jesus is a prophet, then He couldn't lie. He said He's the Son of God and that "God and I are one." since He's a prophet and that He couldn't lie, then what He said was true.
He said He was the promised Messish.
He's said He's the Son of God.
therefore, He's also God.
all of these are true....
since He can't lie.
because of He did lie, then Islam holds a lie.
that He's a prophet, but He lied.
if that's a lie, then Quran lied. Mohammed lied and Allah is non existent.
and yada yada yada. it goes on in circles.
but the point is: Jesus is God.[/quote:03246ced00]
and again you do it. jesus is god because the bible says so. why dont you remove that blind fold called "the bible" from around your eyes and start looking to the real world.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="241" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Now, let me apply the old case of the judge and the thief to God and man, (take into account that we have all sinned) The Judge (God) convicted the thief to a very high fine - and then stood up, drew his wallet, and because of their friendship, the Judge (God) paid it all. Is the Judge just and merciful, YES, in fact, it was noble behaviour.[/quote:03246ced00]
yes yes, and the all mighty, all knowing, all powerful god gets killed by a few jews in order for him to forgive the sins of humanity. or is it suppose to be, the son of god has killed himself in order for his father to forgive all humanity? no wait, you belive in one god in 3 parts, so its suppose to be, god killed a part of him in order for him to forgive all humanity. what part is that? he's left nut? :roll:
i'm sorry for my foul language, but it is the way i am plus, i cant contain myself sometimes with all that matter-of-fact tone of people who speak complete rubbish.
i'm sorry, but your religion makes no sense at all. take this for instance,
In John 17:1 Jesus is looking up toward heaven and praying. Hey, but didn't you say that he was God in the flesh? If he's God, then why is he praying to himself in heaven when he was on earth? something wrong with his mentality? a god suffereing from a split personality?
please.
there is an article given by our sister Muslimah called In The Shadows Of The Bible (or something similar) in the General forum.
take a read. open your mind and use it.
</div></blockquote>
Jesus - Whisper - 05-26-2003
Jennifer, you didn't understand what i was saying, if you had understood it, your response would be much better.
Let me explain it a little differently this time, or modify it maybe.
A man who involved in a court battle goes on tv and claims his innocence proclaims only his own view and not that which is under law.
If I commit a crime, or if i don't commit a crime but am accused by others. I must if i wish to explain myself, enter court, i must play the game of life to appear noble, i must stay within the law to gain a lawful victory, if i do not appear in court, i have nothing, no voice, nothing.
Sin is something that we alone cannot pay, it is beyond us, for if we could pay, then we ourselves would be God, the demand by God to pay for sins that we cannot pay for, that we can never pay for would be unjust.
Therefore, God became man, became one of us, and in doing so, eliminated the debt.
Jesus - Purgetory - 05-26-2003
Yet you speak of Justice and Mercy. For God to pay for our sins is Merciful, yet is it Just? If I killed one of your best friends, would it be Just to let me go? Merciful, yes, but Just? I think not.
Thats the same thing. If we sin, we have to be punished for it, or else, why is ther Heaven and Hell? why is there good and bad? why is there black and white? if whatever you do, you will be equal with everyone else? if a murderer is the same as a hero in the eyes of God?
only those who accept christ as god will be forgiven you say? then tell me, this year alone, have seen more than 3 child molesting priests. do they accept christ? yes, they even give lectures, preach and teach christianity. people come to them to ask them and learn from them about christianity. yet what do we find out in the end? they molest our children! will they be forgiven by your god? if you dont change your words, then your answer should be yes. forgiven by god and equal to those who's the greatest sin they made is lie? do you call that mercy, maybe. mercy to the sinner, but to the victim? do you call that justice. absolutly not, not to the sinner, nor to the victim.
Jesus - Whisper - 05-26-2003
"If I killed one of your best friends, would it be Just to let me go? Merciful, yes, but Just? I think not. "
I am not God, so my decision will fall short in its complexity.
I will answer this though, let us exclude the law of man, this event happens on a street when no one else is around. I would hope, from my current standpoint that I let him go, for holding him would only glorify me, the peace the killer finds will be in my act of kindness towards him.
My swallowing of the pain would leave me half empty at that time, but i would find my peace also in God just as the killer would find peace in knowing i forgave him and knowing that God forgives all.