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+--- Thread: I have decided to leave here.... (/showthread.php?tid=9825)
I have decided to leave here.... - Purgetory - 06-08-2003
After all the blocking, locking, editing and sensoring of what the non-muslims are trying to say, I realised that this is not the place where anything could be done for our religion. What are we afraid of for God's sake? Our religion is clear, our Qoran is plain and we have nothing to hide.
It is true that some non-muslims who came here have been stuborn, even stupid sometimes, yet that doesnt take us away from our duty to our religion. To teach them and show them the truth and show them how wrong they are. If we cant convert them, the least we can do is show them that their information is wrong.
The last incident of Whisper is what woke me up. Whisper did NOT use harsh language. All what he did is post articles and argued with us about religion. In any argument, you realy should expect to be offended. It is human nature that you are offended by the beliefs of a person who doesnt believe in what you do. We believe that Jesus is not God, and we said that to them several times. When they say Allah is not God, we get all worked up, when we our selves have offended their beliefs.
I dont hold myself blameless, for I too might have said a few wrong things to them, yet never will I hit someone for his belief, and if I cant hit him because he's in another country, I close my eyes and block him.
Whisper might have been dancing around, he might be very stuborn and stupid, yet that is expected from someone who is seeing a shake in something he believed in from all his life, something as important as religion and eternity. But presisting with him, until HE HIMSELF leaves the forum of his own will, will get us to a good conclusion. He might start thinking, yet banning him and locking topics or deleting post is of no use to him or to other guest who are just passing by to learn about our religion. What Whisper believes in is what all Christians believe in. If we dont answer him, we dont answer to no one, the light of Islam will remain forever in this box.
You say that it is illegal for non-muslims to preach here, yet how are they to learn that they are wrong if they dont give us their side of the story. Most people wont come here of their own accord to simply learn more. Most of them would come here to prove themselves, and if we dont answer them, then they will remain with their foolish pride and that, I believe is not accepted by Allah. Allah wants us to spread Islam and save those people, however hard or stuborn they may be. everyone could be broken in a false belief, unless ofcourse, you dont trust yourself and your own faith, Islam.
I find it useless to remain here and thus, this will be my last post. I hope you will learn something someday. I am no position to tell you what to do, I am just giving my advice, and reason for leaving. Whether you see my point or not, thats your problem. I have promised Whisper to leave here with him if I see his work being sensored unfairly.
And so I have.
Good luck,
Purgetroy
I have decided to leave here.... - AbuNoran - 06-09-2003
Subhan ALLAH, you could have learned more by talking to Muslims than talking to Kufar, it's your loss not ours, may ALLAH (SWT) guide you to straighten your piorities.
You have no idea how bad a sin it is to let kufar say bad things about ALLAH (SWT), the Prophet (SAAWS), the Quran, and the Islamic Shariah.
ALLAH (SWT) commands us to intervine and stop them.
You need to educate yourself more about Islam, know whats allowed and whats not allowed before accusing us of being afraid to answer back any body and before engaging in talks with the infidels.
Again may ALLAH (SWT) guide you to what I just told you.
Al-i-'Imran (Surah #3)
[28] Let not the Believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than Believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
[29] Say: "Whatever ye hide what is in your hearts or reveal it, Allah knows it all: He knows what is in the heavens, and what is on earth. And Allah has power over all things.
[30] "On the Day when every soul will be confronted with all the good it has done, and all the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between it and its evil. But Allah cautions you (to remember) Himself. And Allah is full of kindness to those that serve Him."[/color:fc1db4876d]
<span><span>لَا يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَنْ يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلَّا أَنْ تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاةً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ</span></span>
<span><span>نَهَى تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى عِبَاده الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَنْ يُوَالُوا الْكَافِرِينَ وَأَنْ يَتَّخِذُوهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء يُسِرُّونَ إِلَيْهِمْ بِالْمَوَدَّةِ مِنْ دُون الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ثُمَّ تَوَعَّدَ عَلَى ذَلِكَ فَقَالَ تَعَالَى " وَمَنْ يَفْعَل ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنْ اللَّه فِي شَيْء " أَيْ وَمَنْ يَرْتَكِب نَهْي اللَّه فِي هَذَا فَقَدْ بَرِئَ مِنْ اللَّه كَمَا قَالَ تَعَالَى " يَا أَيّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا عَدُوِّي وَعَدُوّكُمْ أَوْلِيَاء تُلْقُونَ إِلَيْهِمْ بِالْمَوَدَّةِ - إِلَى أَنْ قَالَ - وَمَنْ يَفْعَلهُ مِنْكُمْ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ سَوَاء السَّبِيل " وَقَالَ تَعَالَى " يَا أَيّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاء مِنْ دُون الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَنْ تَجْعَلُوا لِلَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ سُلْطَانًا مُبِينًا " وَقَالَ تَعَالَى " يَا أَيّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْيَهُود وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضهمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْض وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّهُمْ مِنْكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ " الْآيَة . وَقَالَ سُبْحَانه وَتَعَالَى بَعْد ذِكْر مُوَالَاة الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنْصَار وَالْأَعْرَاب " وَاَلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْضهمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْض إِلَّا تَفْعَلُوهُ تَكُنْ فِتْنَة فِي الْأَرْض وَفَسَاد كَبِير " وَقَوْله تَعَالَى " إِلَّا أَنْ تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاة " أَيْ مَنْ خَافَ فِي بَعْض الْبُلْدَان وَالْأَوْقَات مِنْ شَرّهمْ فَلَهُ أَنْ يَتَّقِيَهِمْ بِظَاهِرِهِ لَا بِبَاطِنِهِ وَنِيَّته كَمَا قَالَ الْبُخَارِيّ عَنْ أَبِي الدَّرْدَاء أَنَّهُ قَالَ : إِنَّا لَنُكَشِّر فِي وُجُوه أَقْوَام وَقُلُوبنَا تَلْعَنهُمْ . وَقَالَ الثَّوْرِيّ : قَالَ اِبْن عَبَّاس : لَيْسَ التَّقِيَّة بِالْعَمَلِ إِنَّمَا التَّقِيَّة بِاللِّسَانِ وَكَذَا رَوَاهُ الْعَوْفِيّ عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس إِنَّمَا التَّقِيَّة بِاللِّسَانِ وَكَذَا قَالَ أَبُو الْعَالِيَة وَأَبُو الشَّعْثَاء وَالضَّحَّاك وَالرَّبِيع بْن أَنَس وَيُؤَيِّد مَا قَالُوهُ قَوْل اللَّه تَعَالَى " مَنْ كَفَرَ بِاَللَّهِ مِنْ بَعْد إِيمَانه إِلَّا مَنْ أُكْرِهَ وَقَلْبه مُطْمَئِنَّ بِالْإِيمَانِ " الْآيَة وَقَالَ الْبُخَارِيّ : قَالَ الْحَسَن التَّقِيَّة إِلَى يَوْم الْقِيَامَة ثُمَّ قَالَ تَعَالَى " وَيُحَذِّركُمْ اللَّه نَفْسه " أَيْ يُحَذِّركُمْ نِقْمَتَهُ فِي مُخَالَفَته وَسَطْوَته وَعَذَابه لِمَنْ وَالَى أَعْدَاءَهُ وَعَادَى أَوْلِيَاءَهُ. ثُمَّ قَالَ تَعَالَى " وَإِلَى اللَّه الْمَصِير " أَيْ إِلَيْهِ الْمَرْجِع وَالْمُنْقَلَب لِيُجَازِيَ كُلّ عَامِل بِعَمَلِهِ. قَالَ اِبْن أَبِي حَاتِم : حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي حَدَّثَنَا سُوَيْد بْن سَعِيد حَدَّثَنَا مُسْلِم بْن خَالِد عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي حُسَيْن عَنْ عَبْد الرَّحْمَن بْن سَابِط عَنْ مَيْمُون بْن مِهْرَان قَالَ : قَامَ فِينَا مُعَاذ فَقَالَ : يَا بَنِي أَوْد إِنِّي رَسُول رَسُول اللَّه إِلَيْكُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ الْمَعَاد إِلَى اللَّه إِلَى الْجَنَّة أَوْ إِلَى النَّار .[/size:fc1db4876d][/color:fc1db4876d] </span></span>
I have decided to leave here.... - Muslimah - 06-09-2003
As Salam Alykom Purgetroy
Alhamdulelah I see that brother AbuNoran already told you the Ayah I wanted to quote for this situation.
Al-i-'Imran (Surah #3)
[28] Let not the Believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than Believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
And again it is just an advice for a Muslim brother trying on the road of Allah. Brother, it is not the matter of them being stuborn. It is of course expected.
someone woke up to look at his belief being accused of falsehood. But our guidelines in this is what the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم did in each situation. In Taif he refused to supplicate against people who hurt him. While in Mecca he supplicated against Abu Jahl who put dirt on his back while praying. Besides Allah say in the Noble Quran:
Is he, then, to whom the evil of his deeds is made fair-seeming, so that he considers it as good (equal to one who is rightly guided)? Verily, Allâh sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. So destroy not yourself (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) in sorrow for them. Truly, Allâh is the All-Knower of what they do!"
Matter of fact, you leaving with Whisper is what Whisper wan. Is how she managed to drag you into the trap of bleiveing that what she did was correct that deserves you stand besides her. Our role brother is to call for Allah, correct ourselves, and gain more knowledge. Yes we must be patient and understanding of non Muslims position but within the Divine limits. We must not allow a trangress or else we are in trouble. May be you didn't see how she transgressed against Allah. Specially when she was writing under David, then Truth. So who are you siding with. A cheating person who Christians shall certainly have a big question mark against since she is representing a bad image. We know it is a disaster for them to realize the truth. They know it brother. Denying it is the problem. and look at the Ayah. We must not kill ourselves for them to believe.
"Verily you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) guide not whom you like, but Allâh guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.[3]'
(Quran 28:56). However, the whom He wills here is not only referring to Allah but including the person himslef. So we can only give info but not stand in persistence. If they want to see the light good and well if not we have no problem Insh a Allah. Again we would like to focus on ourselves Muslims.
And we sincerely hope Purgetroy that your stay with us for at least one year was somehow beneficial to you.
And remember our advice is for you to consider while dealing with simialr situations.