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Nature of Jesus...again - Curious Christian - 07-13-2006
We've discussed a lot about whether or not the bible teaches that Jesus is God. We've discussed certain passages such as John 1 at length. Earlier this morning I expanded my look into the matter and found the following.
I stand by the fact that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God.
Phillipians 2
<b>5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.</b>
Colosians 2
<b>8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.</b>
Titus 2
<b>11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. </b>
15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you
Psalm 45
<b> 6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;</b>
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom
Quoted in Hebrews 1 as....
<b> 8 But to the Son He says:</b>
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
2 Peter
<b>1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,</b>
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
<b>Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"</b>
<b>Answer:</b> Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?
John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."
In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death
Nature of Jesus...again - wel_mel_2 - 07-14-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:I stand by the fact that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God.
I stand by the fact that since Jesus pbuh himself never claim divinity i.e never said I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME, therefore he is NOT GOD.
don't you think CC, that it is VERY VERY IMPORTANT for GOD "Jesus" "if he was God" to declare that HE IS GOD? are you saying that when Jesus pbuh was telling his disciples to "worship the Father", he meant to say WORSHIP ME? Do you want us to believe that his twelve apostles were so dense that they could not comprehend the difference between a "father" and a "son" ? Are there no words in his language to say "I am God or I am not God but His son, worship both of us"?
God must command us to worship him, the same way He did in the OT, and Jesus did command us to worship God, and this is enough proof that he is not God. otherwise, Why did God Himself not simply remain quiet (like Jesus) and expect us to "gather" and "observe" that He wishes us to worship Him. that would be silly.
Jesus pbuh never in his lifetime told anyone to worship him. It was others who did that LIKE PAUL AND THE VERSES YOU QUOTED. in fact, whenever Jesus pbuh spoke of worship, he always attributed it to God and never himself:
"Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" Luke 4:8.
Notice the words: "Him ONLY." Jesus did not say "US only," or "Him and I only." How could he possibly make it more clear than that?
the following verses will make it clear that Jesus is NOT GOD.
"Jesus saith unto her, ... worship the Father"John 4:2.
If you still believe that Jesus should be worshipped, then you are claiming that Jesus is the Father. so you decided, either you worship God the Father as Jesus himself commanded you, or you woship Jesus himself and call him the Father.
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship HIM"John 4:23.
Notice: "worship the FATHER," not "worship the Father AND THE SON." Also notice: "worship HIM" not "worship US" or "worship ME."
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."Matthew 7:21.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Matthew 22:37.
Jesus is asking you to love the Lord your God, he did not tell you you shall love thy God which is me with all ..........
God is God CC, and Jesus is one of His great prophets who came to deliver the message of monotheism to his people. so believe in God and His prophets.
Salam
Wael