+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Islam (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Jingle Bells? (/showthread.php?tid=6807)
Jingle Bells? - wel_mel_2 - 12-25-2006
Bismillah:
<i>Are you a new Muslim trying to survive Christmas? Are you feeling lonely, cooping yourself up in your room on Christmas Eve? Ignoring all the carols being sung outside your door? Or maybe you’re taking a stroll around the block trying not to notice all the Christmas trees, colored lights, and Santas that stare you in the face.</i>
<i>If all these trials of ignoring Christmas prove a complete failure (which they probably will), why not relax and think deeply whether Islam really prevents Muslims from enjoying their family gatherings? </i>
Full article HERE
Salam
Wael
Jingle Bells? - Ruggedtouch - 12-25-2006
Quote:Bismillah:
<i>Are you a new Muslim trying to survive Christmas? Are you feeling lonely, cooping yourself up in your room on Christmas Eve? Ignoring all the carols being sung outside your door? Or maybe you’re taking a stroll around the block trying not to notice all the Christmas trees, colored lights, and Santas that stare you in the face.</i>
<i>If all these trials of ignoring Christmas prove a complete failure (which they probably will), why not relax and think deeply whether Islam really prevents Muslims from enjoying their family gatherings? </i>
Full article HERE
Salam
Wael
Please, please superior umma... please tell us what we may do to effect some sort of lessening of the arrogant contempt you feel for us, our allowance and tolerance for differing beliefs and for our way of life. We really deserve your hateful contempt for us anyway, but if it's at all possible, we'd love to better appease you as we humbly crawl through another bout of self-imposed penitence for the egregious act of living freely.
Jingle Bells? - Faith Hope Charity - 12-25-2006
<b>May God grant you the light in Christmas, which is faith;
</b>
the warmth of Christmas, which is love;
the radiance of Christmas, which is purity;
the righteousness of Christmas, which is justice;
the belief in Christmas, which is truth;
and the whole of Christmas, which is Christ.
<b>Long
lay
the
world
in
sin
&
error
pinning
till
He
appeared
&
the
soul
felt
its
worth
. Glory
to
the
Word
made
flesh
!</b>
<b>M
E
R
R
Y
C
H
R
I
S
T
M
A
S
!!!</b>
Jingle Bells? - wel_mel_2 - 12-26-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:Please, please superior umma... please tell us what we may do to effect some sort of lessening of the arrogant contempt you feel for us, our allowance and tolerance for differing beliefs and for our way of life. We really deserve your hateful contempt for us anyway, but if it's at all possible, we'd love to better appease you as we humbly crawl through another bout of self-imposed penitence for the egregious act of living freely.
Huh??? Why don’t you just ask your questions or pose your comments without this sort of mockery ?
Quote:please tell us what we may do to effect some sort of lessening of the arrogant contempt you feel for us, our allowance and tolerance for differing beliefs and for our way of life. We really deserve your hateful contempt for us anyway
Why do you fee this way? The post was meant to serve NEW MUSLIMS who are still in contact with their Non Muslim families. Why did you understand that I or we hates you? Just because you are an atheist doesn’t mean that you deserve any kind of disrespect.
i hope my message was clear insh a Allah.
Salam
Wael.
Jingle Bells? - Muslimah - 12-26-2006
Bismillah
Quote:Please, please superior umma... please tell us what we may do to effect some sort of lessening of the arrogant contempt you feel for us, our allowance and tolerance for differing beliefs and for our way of life. We really deserve your hateful contempt for us anyway, but if it's at all possible, we'd love to better appease you as we humbly crawl through another bout of self-imposed penitence for the egregious act of living freely.
You keep proving that you really dont read the posts, or even take the trouble to think how to reply. Seems u have a number of templates trying to post them any way.
RT, do us a favor try to read if u r really here to communicate. As Wael explained, the post is to help new Muslims, why this should bother u? Again, actually, my comment which u didnt like much, that u r fun to be here is just growing more credible. Keep doing this RT.
Without u noticing, you are proving Quran true, Alhamdulelah.
Jingle Bells? - PUPPET - 12-29-2006
<b>The Article States:</b>
"
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8) "
Seems <b>R . T</b> is too quick with his key board on the reply button and jumping to conclusions before reading. Once again Good grammar does not hide ignorance.
Christmas spirit is dead, not caused by the grinch or scrooge
Sadly like most other religious "days" Christmas is a day for Marketing firms and stores to Capitalize on consumers. It has become a farce sadly.
From Porn stars to movies to food outlets, toys , every one screams out Jingle bells and makes a mockery of Christ’s birthday. Like easter eggs and Hot Cross Buns, colour full lights are no more a token or way of joyfull expression but rather "Christmas bumper editions" are a way of sinking cunsomers into useless buying.
Jingle Bells? - Ruggedtouch - 12-29-2006
Quote:<b>The Article States:</b>
"
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8) "
Well... if it's verses you want...
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. —<i>Koran 2:193</i>
Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. <i>Koran 8:40</i>
When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. —<i>Koran 9:5</i> (verse of the sword)
Of course as we'll see in a bit, this is all dismissed with another verse... which can be contradicted with another verse... by another verse... etc., etc., etc
Which leads us to why would allah change his mind? It's called <b>Abrogation</b>.
How can Allah, the all-knowing, all-wise creator, the eternal, self-existent one and sustainer of the universe be time-bound with what he says?
Surah 2:106:
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
Just so you know...the Koran did change. According to the above Surah, Allah changed it in places by substituting something better...but then that leads me to question why Allah would say something inferior in the first place such that he needed to substitute it later with something better? I mean, I have to do that kind of stuff all the time (take a look at some of my posts. A veritable cornicopia of additions and edits)...but then again, I'm just a lamb~
Allah is supposed to be God. God doesn't have these kinds of problems...
Right?
I mean...he went and had a WHOLE <i>new</i> book made up (called the Koran) because his earlier words became corrupted, right?
Quote:Seems <b>R . T</b> is too quick with his key board on the reply button and jumping to conclusions before reading. Once again Good grammar does not hide ignorance.
Christmas spirit is dead, not caused by the grinch or scrooge
Sadly like most other religious "days" Christmas is a day for Marketing firms and stores to Capitalize on consumers. It has become a farce sadly.
From Porn stars to movies to food outlets, toys , every one screams out Jingle bells and makes a mockery of Christ’s birthday. Like easter eggs and Hot Cross Buns, colour full lights are no more a token or way of joyfull expression but rather "Christmas bumper editions" are a way of sinking cunsomers into useless buying.
Sadly, we have an apologist for mass murderers preaching to us about religious belief. Too bad, really. We could take a lesson from moslems about making a mockery of religious belief. The very next car bombing, beheading, mass murder or slaughter of innocent people to the droning intonation of "allah Akbar" will be a lesson to us all in how to praise the benefits of your religious belief.
The wannabe jihadis sheltering themselves in the fold of liberal democracies are just too funny.
Jingle Bells? - PUPPET - 01-02-2007
^ Hello, Earth to Rugged.
You just wasted my time by making me read the above.
Jingle Bells? - Ruggedtouch - 01-03-2007
Quote:^ Hello, Earth to Rugged.
You just wasted my time by making me read the above.
I'm sorry that you had to waste so much time in a futile attempt to hide from the truth and can't admit that's the case.
Jingle Bells? - wel_mel_2 - 01-04-2007
Bismillah:
Quote:Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. —Koran 2:193
Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. Koran 8:40
When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. —Koran 9:5 (verse of the sword)
Of course as we'll see in a bit, this is all dismissed with another verse... which can be contradicted with another verse... by another verse... etc., etc., etc
First of all, there is no such words in the Qur’an as <b>MAKE WAR ON THEM</b>…which translation of the Qur'an are you using? Or did you copy and paste the quotes from faithless websites?
The word used in this verse is <b>Qital</b> which means (fight), but MAKE WAR ON THME does not exist in the Qur’an. And if you read all chapters talking about fighting within context, you will understand that these verse speaking about hostile disbelievers <b>who were planning to slay the Prophet pbuh or get him out of his home and not
just against each and every peaceful disbeliever</b>.
Quote:Which leads us to why would allah change his mind? It's called Abrogation.
How can Allah, the all-knowing, all-wise creator, the eternal, self-existent one and sustainer of the universe be time-bound with what he says?
Surah 2:106:
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
Just so you know...the Koran did change. According to the above Surah, Allah changed it in places by substituting something better...
but then that leads me to question why Allah would say something inferior in the first place such that he needed to substitute it later with something better? I mean, I have to do that kind of stuff all the time (take a look at some of my posts. A veritable cornicopia of additions and edits)...but then again, I'm just a lamb~
Allah is supposed to be God. God doesn't have these kinds of problems
Right, God does not have these kinds of problems, <b>YOU HAVE</b>. And that is due to your very limited understanding of the Qur’an.
The Arabic word mentioned in the verse which you have quoted is <b>ayat</b> which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’. This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways:
a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.
Here Allah says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, <b>indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an. </b>
b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur’an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur’an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later.<b> I agree with both the interpretations and can see no problem at all.</b>
Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur’an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur’an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.
Let us analyze an example.
Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur’an was forged by Prophet Muhammad pbuh, Allah challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra:
"Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur’an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support." [Al-Qur’an 17:88]
<b>Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud: </b>
"Or they may say, "He forged it." Say, "Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!’." [Al-Qur’an 11:13]
<b>It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus:</b>
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!’."
[Al-Qur’an 10:38]
<b>Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah further simplified the challenge:</b>
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith". [Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]
Thus Allah made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur’an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur’an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur’an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mim mislihi) to the Qur’anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously.
The earlier verses of the Qur’an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur’an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur’an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur’an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur’an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise.
Salam
Wael