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Holy Week and Pork!! - wel_mel_2 - 04-07-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
I just heard from my catholic friends, that they are not allowed to eat pork during their Holy Week; they actually don’t know the reason… so is there any Christian member here who can clarify this point?
<b>Why only during the Holy Week, Christians are not allowed to eat pork?</b>
Thanks and Salam
Wael.
Holy Week and Pork!! - Curious Christian - 04-07-2007
It is a fast. I haven't heard that one can't eat pork per se...we don't eat meat on Fridays during lent. Not because meat is bad. We do it as a sacrfice. Surely you know what a fast is....
Holy Week and Pork!! - wel_mel_2 - 04-08-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:It is a fast. I haven't heard that one can't eat pork per se...we don't eat meat on Fridays during lent. Not because meat is bad. We do it as a sacrfice. Surely you know what a fast is....
Ok, but is there any biblical reference regarding this matter? Or is it only a traditional practice?
I wonder why in the Philippines they forbid anyone from eating pork during the holy week, they are also Catholics!!!
Salam
Wael.
Holy Week and Pork!! - Curious Christian - 04-08-2007
Quote:Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Ok, but is there any biblical reference regarding this matter? Or is it only a traditional practice?
I wonder why in the Philippines they forbid anyone from eating pork during the holy week, they are also Catholics!!!
Salam
Wael.
There are definately some ethnic traditions which mean that the various practices vary from nation to nation to a certain degree.
I don't know anything about Catholics in the Philippines...I don't that the Church forbids anyone from eating pork. My guess is that some Catholics in the Philippines chose to not eat pork during the holy week as a fast.
You need to understand that some go outside of the perameters set forth by the Church in their practices. In some places professing "catholics" litteral nail themselves to the cross on good Friday. This practice is in no way approved by the Church...but some will do it and claim to be Catholic. They may in fact be Catholic but they are disobeying the Church and are very confused.
Holy Week and Pork!! - abdulwalee - 04-08-2007
Quote: they are disobeying the Church and are very confused.
What does the Church say about it?
Holy Week and Pork!! - abdulwalee - 04-08-2007
Quote:There are definately some ethnic traditions which mean that the various practices vary from nation to nation to a certain degree.
I don't know anything about Catholics in the Philippines...I don't that the Church forbids anyone from eating pork. My guess is that some Catholics in the Philippines chose to not eat pork during the holy week as a fast.
You need to understand that some go outside of the perameters set forth by the Church in their practices. In some places professing "catholics" litteral nail themselves to the cross on good Friday. This practice is in no way approved by the Church...but some will do it and claim to be Catholic. They may in fact be Catholic but they are disobeying the Church and are very confused.
<b>Holy week's Origins</b>
Easter
The English term, according to the Ven. Bede (De temporum ratione, I, v), relates to Estre, <b>a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, which deity, however, is otherwise unknown, </b> even in the Edda (Simrock, Mythol., 362); Anglo-Saxon, eâster, eâstron; Old High German, ôstra, ôstrara, ôstrarûn; German, Ostern. April was called easter-monadh. The plural eâstron is used, because the feast lasts seven days. Like the French plural Pâques, it is a translation from the Latin Festa Paschalia, the entire octave of Easter. The Greek term for Easter, pascha, has nothing in common with the verb paschein, "to suffer," although by the later symbolic writers it was connected with it; it is the Aramaic form of the Hebrew pesach (transitus, passover). The Greeks called Easter the pascha anastasimon; Good Friday the pascha staurosimon. Easter in the early Church
The observance of any non-Jewish special holiday throughout the Christian year <b>is believed by some to be an innovation </b> postdating the Early Church. The ecclesiastical historian Socrates Scholasticus (b. 380) <b>attributes the observance of Easter by the church to the perpetuation of local custom, "just as many other customs have been established," stating that neither Jesus nor his Apostles enjoined the keeping of this or any other festival. </b> However, when read in context, this is not a rejection or denigration of the celebration—which, given its currency in Scholasticus' time would be surprising—but is merely part of a defense of the diverse methods for computing its date. Indeed, although he describes the details of the Easter celebration as deriving from local custom, he insists the feast itself is universally observed.[5]
Perhaps the earliest extant primary source referencing Easter is a 2nd century Paschal homily by Melito of Sardis, which characterizes the celebration as a well-established one.[6]
A number of ecclesiastical historians, primarily Eusebius, bishop Polycarp of Smyrna, by tradition a disciple of John the Evangelist, disputed the computation of the date with bishop Anicetus of Rome in what is now known as the Quartodecimanism controversy. The term Quartodeciman is derived from Latin, meaning fourteen, and refers to the practice of fixing the celebration of Passover for Christians on the fourteenth day of Nisan in the Old Testament's Hebrew Calendar[7], in Latin quarta decima).[8] In any case, early within the Church it was admitted by both sides of the debate that the Lord's Supper was the practice of the disciples and the tradition passed down.
Shortly after Anicetus became bishop of the church of Rome in the mid second century (ca. AD 155), Polycarp visited Rome and among the topics discussed was when the pre-Easter fast should end. Those in Asia held strictly to the computation from the Old Testament's Hebrew calendar and ended the fast on the 14th day of Nisan, while the Roman custom was to continue the fast until the Sunday following. Neither Polycarp nor Anicetus was able to convert the other to his position—according to a rather confused account by Sozomen, both could claim Apostolic authority for their traditions—but neither did they consider the matter of sufficient importance to justify a schism, so they parted in peace leaving the question unsettled.[9]
However, a generation later bishop Victor of Rome excommunicated bishop Polycrates of Ephesus and the rest of the Asian bishops for their adherence to 14 Nisan. The excommunication was rescinded and the two sides reconciled upon the intervention of bishop Irenaeus of Lyons, who reminded Victor of the tolerant precedent that had been established earlier. In the end, a uniform method of computing the date of Easter was not formally settled until the First Council of Nicaea in 325 (see below), although by that time the Roman timing for the observance had spread to most churches.
The ancient Germanic peoples of prehistory had a goddess named Austron, originally the Goddess of Dawn. They held a festival in her honor during the months of spring, in accordance with the warmer weather. The ancient Saxons had celebrated the return of spring with uproarious festival fires commemorating their goddess of offspring. From the Old Saxon Austron and eventually evolving into Olde English, her name became Èastre, which is assumed by etymologists to be the true source of our modern holiday's name of Easter. Modern German's Frohe Ostern (Happy Easter) has sprung from this same source. Even the modern females' name Esther, taken from Biblical times, is related to our word Easter.
<b>PASSOVER AND THE HEBREWS</b>
In modern Spanish, the term Pascua means Easter, as in Feliz día de Pascua for "Happy Easter (Sunday)". Yet the plural Felices Pascuas can also mean "Happy Easter", depending on such factors as regional variation, in reference to the numerous days of Holy Week. From an ancient Hebrew word for Passover, Pesach, has come the term for Easter in many languages: the Greek Pascha, the Norwegian Paaske, the French Pâques, and the Spanish Pascua. The modern English equivalent of Passover in today's Spanish is Pascua de los hebreos, literally "Easter of the Hebrews".
From the Old Testament of the Bible, the Book of Exodus tells us the story of how the Hebrew slaves, who were being held in bondage by Rameses the Second of Egypt circa 1150 B.C., took flight from the Land of the Pharaohs. Pharaoh decreed that the angel of Death was to destroy the firstborn of Israël, yet the cherub or "guardian Angel of God", passed over the households of the Hebrews. This allowed them to survive Rameses's wickedness and ultimately permitted them escape through the Red Sea and into the land of freedom across the river Jordan. Today as throughout Jewish history, the most important event of Passover is the ceremonial dinner called the Seder. This commemoration honors the exodus of the Hebrews from bondage in Egypt, their receiving of the Torah or the Jewish Holy book, and their entrance into the land of freedom in Canaan.
<b>CHRISTIANITY AND RESURRECTION</b>
For Christians, Easter has taken on the concept of Resurrection, from both a physical standpoint (as in Spring's renewal or rebirth) and from a spiritual perspective (illuminating the Holy Spirit or Christ-consciousness within the individual). Palm Sunday begins Holy Week, or La Semana Santa in Spanish. The fifth day of Holy Week is Holy Thursday, Green Thursday, Pure Thursday, Clean Thursday (from times of antiquity when bathing was a luxury), or Maundy Thursday. This term maundy comes to us from the Roman's Vulgar Latin word meaning "commandment". This, in turn, is followed by Good Friday, the Spanish equivalent being el Viernes Santo, when Christ met his physical death on the cross at the hands of the Romans and resurrected (rose from the dead) on Easter Sunday.
The term resurrection comes to us from the Latin verb surgere, meaning "to lead up from below" or "to rise". This originated as a compound verb formed from the prefix sub- , or "up from below", and regere meaning "to rule or lead". This Latin infinitive regere is the lingüistic source of the modern English terms regiment, regimentation, regency, and region. English acquired these words by means of the Old Spanish surgir (to come forth) and the Old French sourgir of the same connotation. Surgere also produced such English variants as surge, resurgent, resurgence, insurgence, insurrection, source, resource, resourceful, and resurrection (often spelled with a capital R).
<b>BONFIRES IN ANTIQUITY</b>
During pre-Christian "pagan" times of antiquity, Easter bonfires were lit in commemoration of the coming of spring. During the 5th Century A.D., in what is now currently Scotland or England, there lived a boy who was later to be christened Saint Patrick. He had been captured by malicious pirates and was made a stowaway aboard ship until they reached the shores of Ireland. For seven years he tended to his flocks of sheep. Later, Saint Patrick escaped to France and became a monk there. Yet in 432 A.D., he had a cosmic vision, much like Saint Paul (formerly Saul) had experienced while on the road to Damascus. His inspirational vision led him back to Ireland and with him, he brought the newly founded religion of Christianity. At that time, the Irish were deeply entrenched in the pagan customs of bonfires being burned in honor of their numerous astronomical gods. Saint Patrick had offered them a new "Christian" fire rite, wherein the fires would represent the "Light of the world". On Saturday, Easter Eve of 433 A.D., Saint Patrick displayed burning fires just outside of the churchyards to honor Christ's Light. With time, this new custom of blessing and burning a new fire each year took root, eventually becoming part of Christian Easter Sunday celebrations throughout most of Europe. These fires were to symbolize the light of the sun, to counteract the frigid climatic conditions often encountered in that part of the world in springtime. Even the name Easter has something to do with the sun: the old Norse words (from the sagas still read today by the children of Iceland in public schools) Eostur, Eastar, Ostara, and Ostar all imply a "season of the growing sun" and "season of new birth". Eostre was symbolized as a semi-deity figure who held a corn sheaf in one hand and a basket of eggs in the other.
<b>Easter alleged a Babylonian festival</b>
Some suggest an etymological relationship between Eostre and the Babylonian goddess Ishtar (variant spelling: Eshtar) and the possibility that aspects of an ancient festival accompanied the name, claiming that the worship of Bel and Astarte was anciently introduced into Britain, and that the hot cross buns of Good Friday and dyed eggs of Easter Sunday figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now, but there is no actual evidence for such things.
<b>It should be noted that Allah Didn't sanction any of this madness. it comes from the minds of the men. Many Christians reject these pagen triditions</b>
Holy Week and Pork!! - Faith Hope Charity - 04-09-2007
Al Masseh Qam! Hakkan Qam!
Quote:Ok, but is there any biblical reference regarding this matter? Or is it only a traditional practice?
I wonder why in the Philippines they forbid anyone from eating pork during the holy week, they are also Catholics!!!
I guess you could say it springs from both authorities.
Sacred Scripture: Tobit 12:8; St Matthew 6:16-18; St Luke 4:2; Leviticus 16:31 & 23:27-32; Numbers 29:7
Lent is a time when we imitate Jesus in the desert & the Israelites in the wilderness. They fasted, abstained & were tempted for 40 days. The Church calls it an "expression of interior penance". For Jews it's known as Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).
Sacred Tradition: The flesh of warm-blooded animals (including pork) is off limits on Ash Wednesday & all Friday's in Lent. That's the minimum. Fish is the typical substitute. If Filipinos choose to abstain from meat throughout Holy Week then that's an extra effort on their part & may God bless them for it. Orthodox refrain from all dairy products as well, & Maronite Catholics fast for 40 days too (from midnight to midday).
Observing the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart (CCC 2043).
Quote:In some places professing "catholics" litteral nail themselves to the cross on good Friday.
It takes place in the Philippines. Wael, have you ever witnessed it? I watched it on the net yesterday.
Quote:<b>It should be noted that Allah Didn't sanction any of this madness. it comes from the minds of the men. Many Christians reject these pagen triditions</b>
I totally agree with you, Abdul :thumb: That article was pure madness, definitely not sanctioned by Allah & strongly rejected by Catholic Christians.
The best lies are usually the ones that contain truth. My faith just increased a notch :)
God bless.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
Holy Week and Pork!! - abdulwalee - 04-09-2007
Quote: totally agree with you, Abdul :thumb: That article was pure madness, definitely not sanctioned by Allah & strongly rejected by Catholic Christians.
The best lies are usually the ones that contain truth. My faith just increased a notch :)
God bless.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
al-Eemaan(Faith) is statement upon the tounge, Action of the limbs, and tasdeeq in the heart already difined by the Lord of all that exsist:Allah(God) and you have no proof for thoes beliefs you hold- they are mere Kufr. just like thoes heretical festivals that emulate from Pegan christian tridition. See Paul, after claiming Isa Ibn maryam spoke to him on the road to Damascus: lied and thus went to the non-jews to preach a distorted religion to these people he had to make his religion fair-seeming to these pegans and a compermise was reached and they brought all their pegan triditions along with them... so thats why with easter you got the lie of it being connected to Jesus also you got pegan customs of fertility worshippers with the eggs and rabbits etc... May Allah guide you to the deen of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the last of these Noble Prophets and Messengers Muhmmad. Amen
Holy Week and Pork!! - Curious Christian - 04-09-2007
Quote:al-Eemaan(Faith) is statement upon the tounge, Action of the limbs, and tasdeeq in the heart already difined by the Lord of all that exsist:Allah(God) and you have no proof for thoes beliefs you hold- they are mere Kufr. just like thoes heretical festivals that emulate from Pegan christian tridition. See Paul, after claiming Isa Ibn maryam spoke to him on the road to Damascus: lied and thus went to the non-jews to preach a distorted religion to these people he had to make his religion fair-seeming to these pegans and a compermise was reached and they brought all their pegan triditions along with them... so thats why with easter you got the lie of it being connected to Jesus also you got pegan customs of fertility worshippers with the eggs and rabbits etc... May Allah guide you to the deen of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the last of these Noble Prophets and Messengers Muhmmad. Amen
May God guide you away from lies and into truth.
Holy Week and Pork!! - wel_mel_2 - 04-10-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:I guess you could say it springs from both authorities.
Sacred Scripture: Tobit 12:8; St Matthew 6:16-18; St Luke 4:2; Leviticus 16:31 & 23:27-32; Numbers 29:7
Thanks for jumping in.
The verses you have quoted have nothing to do with food FHC!!!
Matthew 6
6:16
"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6:17
But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face,
6:18
so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Just put oil on your head and wash your face, <b>no food is mentioned here</b>.
Luke 4
4:2
where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
FHC, you said: Lent is a time when we imitate Jesus in the desert.
Do you really imitate Jesus pbuh by abstaining from food for 40 days every year?
Leviticus 16
16:31
It is a sabbath of rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance
No food Is mentioned.
Leviticus 23
23:27
"The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present an offering made to the Lord by fire.
23:28
Do no work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God.
23:29
Anyone who does not deny himself on that day must be cut off from his people.
23:30
I will destroy from among his people anyone who does any work on that day.
23:31
You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.
23:32
It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."
Just don’t work on this day, <b>no food is mentioned</b>.
Numbers 29
29:7
"'On the tenth day of this seventh month hold a sacred assembly. You must deny yourselves and do no work.
Also no food is mentioned. Plus I am wondering why did you quote verses from the OT? If you have to follow Leviticus and Numbers, then why are you still eating pork and have no problem with eating it?
My question is; why you don't eat meat/pork during the holy week if there was no specific command given about this in the Bible?
From the verses you have quoted, I’ve learned that during fast, you should do the following:
<b>1- You should not look somber as the hypocrites.</b>
2- You should put oil on your head and wash your face.
3- You should observe fasting for 40 days following the footsteps of Jesus pbuh.
4- You should deny yourselves.
5- You should present an offering made to the Lord by fire (like what we see in Jerusalem temple).
6- You should not work on the Day of Atonement.
There is no command about what should you eat and what you should not during the days of fast!!!!
Quote:In some places professing "catholics" litteral nail themselves to the cross on good Friday.
It takes place in the Philippines. Wael, have you ever witnessed it? I watched it on the net yesterday.
I also saw that on TV, they also walk around carrying huge crosses in Australia and Mexico; I think this have nothing to do with the real teaching of Jesus pbuh.
Salam
Wael.