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The resurrection. - wel_mel_2 - 10-22-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Here is another thought on the "<i>theory</i>" of Jesus' resurrection as promoted by Christians.
Thousands of years before Christianity, India, Egypt, Babylonia and almost all the ancient countries, knew very well of the story of resurrection, these countries, with their unlimited religions and gods, their gods and saviors were born of virgins, these saviors were also considered to be gods' sons, they've performed mighty miracles, and after their death they arose from the dead and ascended into heaven.
Sadly, Christians would never believe in such fairy tales, but at the same time they expect us to believe that these incidents happens only to <b>'their savior'</b> Jesus.
Now...
If the story of the resurrection of "god" who was also called the son of God, older than Christianity, then why can't Christians consider these stories to be true?
If millions of people in these ancient countries who lived and died in their conviction that their saviors died for them and risen from the dead, but yet all Christians believe that these stories are merely fairy tales, <b>then how can anyone be sure that Christ's resurrection was not one of these fiction stories of olden days? </b>
For instance, I've studied in Egypt the story of <b>Osiris</b>, who was worshipped for about 6000 years, and during that time, millions of Egyptians believed that Osiris raised from the dead; So...the question here is, <b>Will the Christians accuse the Egyptians for being dumb just because they believed in "the old version of Christianity"? </b>
Please Christians tell me, how did you come to the conclusion <b>that Osiris resurrection was a myth, but Jesus' resurrection was a fact? </b>
My questions are not over, please Christians enlighten me: are the Buddhists in error for their beliefs that <b>their savior Buddha was resurrected from the dead but you are perfectly right for telling us that Jesus raised from the dead?</b> How did you come to know that they are wrong? <b>Is their religion wrong, simply because it happens to be another man's religion</b>.
The definition of the term <b>"double standard"</b> according to Oxford Dictionary is:
double standard
• noun a rule or principle applied unfairly in different ways to different people.
Ask Oxford.Com
So why Christians consider the resurrections of other "gods and saviors" of <b>OLDER</b> religions to be false, and accept the resurrection story of Christ when it was only told and preached in a recent religion?
Christians have got 2 options:
<b>1- To believe that Jesus' resurrection was simply another myth borrowed from pagan religions. OR…</b>
2- To accept Islam which recognizes Jesus and places him in his right position
We ask Allah, the Almighty God to open their hearts wide to the light of Islam. Ameen.
Salam
Wael.
The resurrection. - Faith Hope Charity - 10-30-2007
Glory to God, peace to God, goodwill to all.
Quote:If millions of people in these ancient countries who lived and died in their conviction that their saviors died for them and risen from the dead, but yet all Christians believe that these stories are merely fairy tales, <b>then how can anyone be sure that Christ's resurrection was not one of these fiction stories of olden days? </b>
I'm not too sure which stories you're talking about, but to answer your question, ONE of the reasons why I believe in Our Lord's Resurrection is because when a handful of eye-witnesses to this historical event were asked to stop preaching the risen Christ & deny the Resurrection, they refused to & as a result suffered the following consequences for the sake of the truth:
St Matthew the Apostle - killed by a sword wound in Ethiopia.
St Mark the Evangelist - dragged by horses until death in Egypt.
St Luke the Evangelist - hanged in Greece.
St John the Beloved Disciple - after surviving an attempt to kill him in a basin of boiling oil, he was sent to the mines on the prison island of Patmos.
St Peter the first Pope - crucified upside down in Rome.
St James the Apostle - thrown over a hundred feet from the Southeast pinnacle of the Temple before being beaten to death with a fuller's club.
St James the other Apostle - beheaded in Jerusalem (& coverted the offical who stood by & watched).
St Bartholomew - flayed to death by a whip in Armenia.
St Andrew the Apostle - crucified on an x-shaped cross in Greece.
St Thomas the Apostle - stabbed with a spear in India.
St Jude the Apostle - killed with arrows.
St Matthias the Apostle - stoned & then beheaded.
St Barnabas the disciple of St Paul - stoned to death in Salonica.
St Stephen the martyr - stoned to death.
St Paul the converted Jew - torchured & then beheaded in Rome.
Quote:For instance, I've studied in Egypt the story of <b>Osiris</b>, who was worshipped for about 6000 years, and during that time, millions of Egyptians believed that Osiris raised from the dead; So...the question here is, <b>Will the Christians accuse the Egyptians for being dumb just because they believed in "the old version of Christianity"? </b>
OsirisPlease Christians tell me, how did you come to the conclusion <b>that Osiris resurrection was a myth, but Jesus' resurrection was a fact? </b>
As far as I'm aware, there are as many versions of the story of Osiris as there are Christian & Islamic sects combined. This is the first time I hear about him being resurrected. I'm starting to think that anti-Christians add details to those ancient accounts to make them compete with the Christian story, not the other way around.
Quote:<b>My questions are not over, please Christians enlighten me: are the Buddhists in error for their beliefs that their savior Buddha was resurrected from the dead but you are perfectly right for telling us that Jesus raised from the dead?</b> How did you come to know that they are wrong? <b>Is their religion wrong, simply because it happens to be another man's religion</b>.
Buddha resurrected? From what I've been taught, Buddhists, like some Islamic groups, believe in the migration of souls (reincarnation). I'm not familiar with Buddha's resurrection.
If I promise not to say anything about anyone's beliefs will you promise not to say anything about mine, because at the end of the day, it's not people's faith that I have issues with, it's their practises. At present, Christians co-exist quite harmoniously with Buddhists & Pagans, however, not with Muslims. That's why I'm on an Islamic board trying to resolve our problems.
Quote:So why Christians consider the resurrections of other "gods and saviors" of <b>OLDER</b> religions to be false, and accept the resurrection story of Christ when it was only told and preached in a recent religion?
Because Christ's Resurrection has a purpose. if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you & I wouldn't be able to enter Heaven.
Quote:Christians have got 2 options:
<b>1- To believe that Jesus' resurrection was simply another myth borrowed from pagan religions. OR…</b>
2- To accept Islam which recognizes Jesus and places him in his right position
None of the above.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
The resurrection. - Hadji - 10-30-2007
Quote: I believe in Our Lord's Resurrection is because when a handful of eye-witnesses to this historical event were asked to stop preaching the risen Christ & deny the Resurrection
What are your sources?
Quote:Because Christ's Resurrection has a purpose. if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you & I wouldn't be able to enter Heaven.
Actually, if Christ wasn't raised from the dead, we'd technically be bound to Jewish law. If I remember correctly, atonement was around a long way back before Christ.
The resurrection. - umm Zachariah - 10-31-2007
Faith Hope Charity
Salam
Totally off topic, but something you wrote that caught my attention.
****At present, Christians co-exist quite harmoniously with Buddhists & Pagans, however, not with Muslims. That's why I'm on an Islamic board trying to resolve our problems.*****
So why do you think Christians find it difficult to be in harmony with Muslims?
The resurrection. - Rock - 10-31-2007
Quote:Because Christ's Resurrection has a purpose. if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you & I wouldn't be able to enter Heaven.
None of the above.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
Why?
We will enter the heaven because of Allah mercy and forgiveness .
Our way to deserve this forgiveness is our good deeds and no more.
The resurrection. - wel_mel_2 - 11-04-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.
Quote:ONE of the reasons why I believe in Our Lord's Resurrection is because when a handful of eye-witnesses to this historical event…
Are you talking about his appearance to his disciples in the upper room? Does this prove that he was resurrected? It seems that you don’t know the meaning of resurrection <b>according to Paul and Jesus</b>; they said that the resurrected body will be <b>spiritualized body </b> and not physical. Here are the biblical references for your info.
….'For they (the resurrected bodies) are equal unto the angles,' …..for such are the children of the resurrection." (Luke 20:36).
If the resurrected bodies will be equal to the angles, that mean the resurrected bodies will be no more than spiritual creatures, not PHYSICAL. “'neither shall they die any more' (Luke 20:36).
That was according to Jesus; let’s see what Paul said about the resurrected bodies.
1Cr 15:42So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Now, we may ask ourselves, <b>was Jesus’ alleged resurrection, in conflict with the above Biblical definition? Definitely YES.</b>
because after he appeared to his disciples in the upper room, they <b>THOUGHT</b> that he was a spirit <b>but </b> Jesus show them his PHYSICAL hands and feet, he told them to handle him and see, <b>(IT IS I MYSELF, FOR A SPIRIT HAS NO FLESH AND BONSE AS YOU SEE ME HAVE).</b>
He was not showing them the nail marks as Christians always claim, <b>he was showing them that he has a flesh and bones which means that he was not a spirit, he was not a spook and that he was not resurrected.</b> He even ate before them to prove that he was the same Jesus <b>because the resurrected bodies, according to Jesus and Paul are spiritual creatures and so they don’t have flesh and bones and they don’t require eating or drinking. </b>
That was the definition of resurrection as given and explained in the Bible, <b>but what happened to Jesus according to the same Bible was the exact opposite of what Christians have understood.</b>
Quote:Were asked to stop preaching the risen Christ & deny the Resurrection, they refused to & as a result suffered the following consequences for the sake of the truth:
I would love to see some<b> NON CHRISTIAN HISTORICAL </b> sources to back up your claims. However, you didn’t know that until the beginning of the fourth century,<b> the Apocalypse of Peter </b> was widely accepted among Christians. In fact, the whole reason why Constantine decided to <i>"unify</i>" the Christians under one "<i>Canon</i>” is because they were so divided among each others as to who Jesus really was and what really happened to him; You may listen to the attached audio file to learn from <b>HISTORIANS</b> the fact that early Christians does not really know what happened to Jesus, so your claim that Jesus’ followers were killed for preaching about his resurrection is proven to be false again.
Quote:As far as I'm aware, there are as many versions of the story of Osiris as there are Christian & Islamic sects combined. This is the first time I hear about him being resurrected. I'm starting to think that anti-Christians add details to those ancient accounts to make them compete with the Christian story, not the other way around.
There is only one version of Osiris story and it is taught in any History class in any part of the world, the ancient writings of these stories are to be found in Egypt today, so your assumption that some anti Christians are adding details to history is so weak and baseless. Plus, I was using Osiris story as an example only, but the fact is that the history is full of ‘<b>resurrected gods’ </b> other than Jesus and Osiris. For more information about <i>Osiris the God of the Resurrection</i> please read the following link.
The God of the Resurrection.
Quote:Buddha resurrected? From what I've been taught, Buddhists, like some Islamic groups, believe in the migration of souls (reincarnation). I'm not familiar with Buddha's resurrection.
What is so strange? Buddha was actually <b>the twin brother of the Christian Jesus</b>, I am a student of comparative religion, I live in the land of Buddhists and so let me tell you what Buddhist believe about their savior:
<b>- They believe that he was born on Dec 25.</b>
- He was born of a virgin called Maya.
- When he was born he was pronounced to be the ruler of the world.
- All his life, he was threatened by a King who was commanded to destroy the Child.
- Of course he performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a small basket of cakes, and walked on water.
- He was killed, and in some narrations he died on a cross and was resurrected and ascended to Nirvana or Heaven.
- He was called, and still called by his followers till today as Lord, Master, Light of the World, God of Gods, Father of the World, Almighty, Redeemer of all, etc…
Now, if you needed any text reference for the above points, please let me know.
Quote:If I promise not to say anything about anyone's beliefs will you promise not to say anything about mine, because at the end of the day, it's not people's faith that I have issues with, it's their practises.
If you have a problem with people’s practices, that means you have a problem with their faith, because according to Islam, each and every act that we do is based on faith in Allah, His prophet and His Deen.
Salam
Wael.