+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Woman and family (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+--- Thread: Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd (/showthread.php?tid=6140)
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-01-2009
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/02/26/67302.html
Jewish local custom says no to loud prayer
A group of North American women rabbis stirred a row for singing the psalms at the Wailing Wall
CAIRO (AlArabiya.net)
North American Jewish women rabbis caused a stir at the Wailing Wall Wednesday as they prayed and sang loudly with prayer shawls and skull caps, flouting Orthodox Jewish customs.
One hundred American women rabbis visiting Israel for the Central Conference of American Rabbis sang loud and clear at the wall during a prayer, known as Hallel, to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the founding of the Women of the Wall, an organization that plans female group prayers on the first day of the month.
A Jewish chastity keeper at the wailing wall (L) argues with a US woman rabbi over singing outloud
Men interrupted the women's singing shouting "a woman's voice is lewd," Anat Hoffman, an activist for Reform Judaism in Israel, told Haaretz. "There were about 70 of us praying. I was ashamed in front of the guests from America."
Singing out loud is considered provocative in Orthodox Jewish law which holds that a woman's voice is lewd and prohibits men from hearing women singing.
Jackie Ellenson, one of the North American rabbis visiting Israel for the conference, said several ultra-Orthodox Jewish women from Israel demanded that the group stop singing and then called the police to complain. Ellenson said they considered themselves the wall's "chastity keepers"
"These chastity keepers were loud and very rude, but there was no violence," Hoffman said.
Jewish local custom says no to loud prayer
" The Western Wall is open to every woman to pray in her own way, as long as she does not breach the local custom, which is Jewish halachah "
Shmuel Rabinovitch, rabbi of Wailing WallDespite the Israeli Supreme Court's ruling allowing women to pray in groups at the Western Wall, local custom has it that women should neither wear the prayer shawl, or kipot, nor read directly from the Torah. Rather they should pray in a corner so as not to distract other worshippers.
"The Western Wall is open to every woman to pray in her own way, as long as she does not breach the local custom, which is Jewish halachah," Shmuel Rabinovitch, rabbi of the Wailing Wall, was quoted by Ynet as saying. "An attempt was made today to create a provocation, desecrate the site and hurt the feelings of men and women worshipers."
Hod Hasharon's chief Ashkenazi rabbi, Reuven Hiller - an outspoken critic of the Reform Movement - called the act "an unnecessary provocation," adding, "They may pray in their synagogues with shawls but why come to a place revered by all sects and offend people there?"
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - SisterJennifer - 03-01-2009
Reminds of a few years back when that lady "Imam" led Jummah prayer in new York and the men and women were all mixed together in the rows praying. And the people within the communities that speak out against these things that happen among themselves are considered to be rude, fundamentalists, or intolerant. And the media loves to pounce on such events ready to portray them as such, just look at the spin on this article.
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-01-2009
Bismillah
I m afraid I didnt understand your point Jennifer!!
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - SisterJennifer - 03-02-2009
OK Muslimah.
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-02-2009
Bismillah
O I was expecting you to help me understand your point!
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - SisterJennifer - 03-02-2009
I'd be happy to my sister, just please tell me what is hard to understand???
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-02-2009
just look at the spin on this article?
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - SisterJennifer - 03-02-2009
It is as if they want to paint orthodox Jews in a negative light for their beliefs. Jewish law is similar to Islamic law regarding women singing in public. I would hope that is a feminist group of Muslim women decided to do something similar in Mecca or Medina that a stop would be put to it as well.
I was trying to say if you trade the names and religion with the incident in New York a few years back, it is almost exactly the same article. I remember having to explain at work to people who had a very hard time to understand why the women cannot give the call to prayer.
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-02-2009
Bismillah
Oo jazaki Allah khairan, got your point, actually in Arabic the article even reads totally different. In Arabic the title is women voice in impure and will make the wall <b>impure as </b>well (there is another word but cannt remember it now Sobhan Allah) rather than properly explaining how women voice is haram in terms of singing. True, but you know what? unfortunately, in Medina for instance, when I access Rawda sharifa, like 5 years ago, the system was not yet proper as now. Iranian and Shia women would wail in a loud voice, just next to the Messenger's salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam and no one tells them off. I guess it is different now, they do stop them. Me too I was in the same situation and had to explain why a woman cannt lead Salat.
I will post something on that later Insh aAllah as I read there were marches and riots in medina last week.
Orthodox Jews consider women's voices lewd - Muslimah - 03-06-2009
Bismillah
Although it might not be really connected, but here is the article about riots in Medina:
Police arrest 5 after demo in Medina
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=86353...ionid=351020205
Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:09:18 GMT
The Baqi Cemetery in Medina
Thousands of people have gathered in front of the Saudi Religious Police's building in Medina after alleged Saudi agents filmed Shia pilgrims.
Witnesses said that the gathering started on Friday afternoon when a crowd of pilgrims were visiting the Baqi Cemetery which is home to tombs of several Shia Imams as well as the Prophet's beloved daughter (PBUH).
The tension erupted after a few people who were believed to work for the Religious Police started taking photos and filming a crowd of Shia pilgrims, BBC reported.
The Saudi media reported that five people were arrested near the Prophet's Mosque over "raising their voices in front of the Baqi cemetery." However, witnesses said that several people were arrested after a row broke out between the protestors and religious police.
The crowd chanted slogans and called on police to hand over the pictures and films to them and immediately release the detainees.
Police spokesman Colonel Mohsin bin Saleh al-Radadi was quoted by Saudi newspapers as saying that a group of pilgrims gathered at the gate of the Baqi Cemetery on Friday evening --when the pilgrimage time ended-and asked for entering the cemetery despite authorities refusal.
According to the police official they insisted on entering the cemetery and a number of them "created unrest and raised their voices in front of the Baqi's gate".
Al-Radadi added that five people were arrested after security guards were called in and that they were handed over to authorities for further interrogation.
The police spokesman said that the other pilgrims were dispersed without any problem.
Witnesses, however, said the gathering lasted about three hours and ended at around 9 pm local time and only after riot police threatened to intervene .
Saudi Arabia has imposed restrictions on the visit of historical and religious sites by pilgrims as Wahabi authorities label the practice as idolatry. The conservative kingdom also widely suppresses the country's Shia minority who lives in Saudi Arabia's eastern regions.
Gatherings and demonstrations are very rare in Saudi Arabia with Wahabi clerics deeming such moves to be "spreading corruption".
---------
It might not have been properly handled as well. But astaghferullah.