Penalty of converting to Christianity

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Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 04-02-2006

Quote:Yes we totally condemn such acts and our religion is totally against killing innocent people, that's why we always advise Non-Muslims NOT to compare Islam by the actions of some bad Muslims.

And I highly praise moderate Muslims when they speak out against such atrocities. We do not agree on many items of faith, but I believe we both are upset when these Islamoterrorists attempt to hijack your honorable faith, and try to make people think that is what Muslims believe.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - wel_mel_2 - 04-02-2006

Bismillah:

Quote:You may believe that you have proved it to me, and you may have rejected my response to your "proof"

im sorry Don, until this moment you have not show me your response for the following points:

1- Jesus is only your personal Savior but God in the OT said something else.... whom to trust you or the God of the OT ?

2- God of the OT said that beside him there is no other God... so why are you calling Jesus God? or why do you worship him?

3- the Bible mentioned that every man should be put to death for his own sins so why someone else have to die for our sins ?

4- Melchisedec "i spell it the same way the Bible did" and Adam are greater than Jesus according to the description given to them, and Melchisedec possess the same quality of God so why you don’t worship him?

5- the everlasting life does not depend on believing in the "only begotten son of God" but depends on keeping the commandments and loving God with all of your heart. Jesus said that in the Bible.

Actually there were other points but i don’t remember now.

Quote:No, nor am I Jewish, therefore I don't consider Melchizedek to be Noah's son Shem. I am a Christian

so who is Melchisedec to you ? he is without father, without mother, have no beginning of days nor end of life... Oh man any sane person reads this statement will have no hesitation to accept this Melchisedec as God, because these qualities only belong to God Almighty.

Quote:I do not know why he decided to send His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. I am just thankful that he did

look at point number 5 up there.

Quote:Yes he said that, before his death, but that does not negate what he was about to do. However those of us that have accepted Him as our Personal Saviour, do the best we can to do everything He urged us to do, not because they are necessary for our Salvation, but because He said we should do them

have you ever pay attention to what i said regarding who is the real SAVIOR?

Quote:When I get to Heaven, I will ask Luke who told him about Gabriel, but both Matthew and Isaiah said it would be a virgin birth.

in the same manner, when we get in heaven Insha'Allah we will ask our prophet Muhammad pbuh who told him that Jesus was saved from the Jews and that he was not killed.

by the way Do, are you a Born again Christian? or Catholic? could you please clarify which denomination of Christianity do you follow. Thanks.

Salam

Wael.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 04-03-2006

Quote:im sorry Don, until this moment you have not show me your response for the following points:

I believe I have responded to them, whether in response to your questions, or someone else's. And while I would love to be able to lead you to know Christ as I do, I am concerned that your fellow Muslims would kill you, and unlike many of my faith, I believe that if you truly follow the Five Pillars of the True Islam, and not the warped version that a small group are trying to pretend is True Islam, that I will meet you in Heaven/Paradise.

Quote:1- Jesus is only your personal Savior but God in the OT said something else.... whom to trust you or the God of the OT ?

I trust the God of the NT and his Son Jesus

Quote:2- God of the OT said that beside him there is no other God... so why are you calling Jesus God? or why do you worship him?

I never called Jesus God. I called him the Son of God.

Quote:3- the Bible mentioned that every man should be put to death for his own sins so why someone else have to die for our sins ?

That was the rule in the OT. But as I have indicated several times, as it says in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Quote:4- Melchisedec "i spell it the same way the Bible did" and Adam are greater than Jesus according to the description given to them, and Melchisedec possess the same quality of God so why you don’t worship him?

Because Melchisedec/Melchizedek did not die on the cross to pay for my sins. Neither did Adam, the archangel Michael, Noah's son Shem, Aaron, nor Joseph Smith.

Quote:5- the everlasting life does not depend on believing in the "only begotten son of God" but depends on keeping the commandments and loving God with all of your heart. Jesus said that in the Bible.

And I do my best to do all of that. I know I will not succeed all the time, but I will have Jesus at my side during Judgment Day, and he will stand up for me.

Quote:Actually there were other points but i don’t remember now.

so who is Melchisedec to you ? he is without father, without mother, have no beginning of days nor end of life... Oh man any sane person reads this statement will have no hesitation to accept this Melchisedec as God, because these qualities only belong to God Almighty.

He is a person mentioned in the Bible.

Quote:have you ever pay attention to what i said regarding who is the real SAVIOR?

No, I listen to Jesus.

Quote:in the same manner, when we get in heaven Insha'Allah we will ask our prophet Muhammad pbuh who told him that Jesus was saved from the Jews and that he was not killed.

Well when you find out, look me up and tell me. And I will introduce you to Jesus at the time, and we will see what he says.

Quote:by the way Don, are you a Born again Christian? or Catholic? could you please clarify which denomination of Christianity do you follow. Thanks.

I am a Christian. I was brought up in the Baptist Church, then was a Methodist for a while, and have visited a number of other churches. Most of them seemed to focus more on why they were better than other Christian churches, that I decided there was a difference between churches and faith, and I preferred faith. I read the Bible, and I have a personal relationship with Jesus. I respect all denominatons, and in fact I respect other faiths

I believe that if Jews follow the compact God established with them in the Torah, that I will see them in Heaven, as well as I will see true Muslims that follow the Five Pillars. I try to bring people to know Jesus as I do, because it will make their time here on Earth better, as well as giving them an alternate path to eternal life.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - wel_mel_2 - 04-03-2006

Bismillah:

Quote:I believe I have responded to them, whether in response to your questions, or someone else's. And while I would love to be able to lead you to know Christ as I do, I am concerned that your fellow Muslims would kill you, and unlike many of my faith, I believe that if you truly follow the Five Pillars of the True Islam, and not the warped version that a small group are trying to pretend is True Islam, that I will meet you in Heaven/Paradise.

Don’t worry about leading me to Christ peace be upon him, whoever God guides to the truth will have none to mislead him and whoever God leaves to go astray will have no one to guide.

Quote:I trust the God of the NT and his Son Jesus

so you dont trust in the God of the OT?

Quote:I never called Jesus God. I called him the Son of God.

if you call him the son of God then you have no right to worship him, because the son is not greater than the father. Jesus plainly said THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Quote:That was the rule in the OT. But as I have indicated several times, as it says in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

the same Jesus pbuh also said THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO DESTROY THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS I HAVE COME NOT TO DESTROY BUT TO FULFIL. so the rule or the law of the OT was confirmed by Jesus that it was not canceld. in fact he said:

Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

i think it is crystal clear Don.

Quote:Because Melchisedec/Melchizedek did not die on the cross to pay for my sins. Neither did Adam, the archangel Michael, Noah's son Shem, Aaron, nor Joseph Smith.

i dont know what you are trying to say here. i said that this Melchisedec POSSESS THE SAME QUALITY AS GOD according to the Bible AND YET YOU DONT CONSIDER HIM AS GOD AND WORSHIP ANOTHER ONE.

Quote:And I do my best to do all of that. I know I will not succeed all the time, but I will have Jesus at my side during Judgment Day, and he will stand up for me.

i think you are not aware of what Jesus will tell you on that day. you are not aware of what he is going to tell ANYONE who used to call him LORD or used to worship him. listen to what Jesus said in the Bible about such people:

Matthew 7

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AMAZING, here Jesus in plain English saying that those who is calling him LORD are not of him and on the day of Judgment he will tell them I NEVER KNEW YOU. those who prophesied IN HIS NAME, and cast out the devils in HIS NAME and have done many miracles in HIS NAME are going to be ignored by Jesus ON THAT DAY.

Quote:He is a person mentioned in the Bible.

God in the Bible or in Christianity is also called a person, so what is the difference between this person and that person? this 'person' have no beginning. the other person also have no beginning. this 'person' have no father or mother, the other 'person' also have no father or mother. this 'person' have no end, the other 'person' also have no end. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:No, I listen to Jesus.

Ok.

Quote:Well when you find out, look me up and tell me. And I will introduce you to Jesus at the time, and we will see what he says.

i told you already what he (peace be upon him) is going to say.

Quote:I am a Christian. I was brought up in the Baptist Church, then was a Methodist for a while, and have visited a number of other churches. Most of them seemed to focus more on why they were better than other Christian churches, that I decided there was a difference between churches and faith, and I preferred faith. I read the Bible, and I have a personal relationship with Jesus. I respect all denominatons, and in fact I respect other faiths

what you mean that you have a personal relationship with Jesus pbuh? you mean he came to you in person and talked to you about something that you would like to share with us?

Quote:I believe that if Jews follow the compact God established with them in the Torah, that I will see them in Heaven, as well as I will see true Muslims that follow the Five Pillars. I try to bring people to know Jesus as I do, because it will make their time here on Earth better, as well as giving them an alternate path to eternal life.

i have nothing else to say Don :)

May God show you and us the right path. Ameen.

Salam

Wael.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 04-03-2006

Quote:so you dont trust in the God of the OT?

There is only one God, so the God of the OT and the God of the NT are the same God. But I am much more familiar with the God of the NT because I read it more

Quote:if you call him the son of God then you have no right to worship him, because the son is not greater than the father. Jesus plainly said THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

I never said I worship him over the Father. In fact I pray to the Father, but in the name of the Son.

Quote:the same Jesus pbuh also said THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO DESTROY THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS I HAVE COME NOT TO DESTROY BUT TO FULFIL. so the rule or the law of the OT was confirmed by Jesus that it was not canceld. in fact he said:

Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

As you indicated He came to fulfill, and he did fulfill, both in things he did while on the earth, and the last prophecy he fulfilled was being resurected.

Quote:i dont know what you are trying to say here. i said that this Melchisedec POSSESS THE SAME QUALITY AS GOD according to the Bible AND YET YOU DONT CONSIDER HIM AS GOD AND WORSHIP ANOTHER ONE.

If you wish to worship Melchisedec, feel free.

Quote:i think you are not aware of what Jesus will tell you on that day. you are not aware of what he is going to tell ANYONE who used to call him LORD or used to worship him. listen to what Jesus said in the Bible about such people:

Matthew 7

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AMAZING, here Jesus in plain English saying that those who is calling him LORD are not of him and on the day of Judgment he will tell them I NEVER KNEW YOU. those who prophesied IN HIS NAME, and cast out the devils in HIS NAME and have done many miracles in HIS NAME are going to be ignored by Jesus ON THAT DAY.

[

You frequently quote things out of context. Let us look at Matthew 7:21. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

What he is saying is not that people should not call him Lord, but that they should not worship him, and do things in his name, but that they should seek to do the will of his Father who is in heaven.

I have said that I worship God, and that when I pray to God I do so in the name of the Son, but I do not prophesy in his name, and in his name drive out demons and perform many miracles. In fact I do not have the power to prophisize at all, nor to drive out demons, nor to perform any miracles.

Quote:what you mean that you have a personal relationship with Jesus pbuh? you mean he came to you in person and talked to you about something that you would like to share with us?

I have never seen him, nor heard his voice, but I have talked to him, and have felt his presence.

Quote:i have nothing else to say Don :)

Nor have I

I think we are just wasting both of our time to go on, so I doubt I will be back in this thread, but I do thank you for answering some questions I had about Islam.

I thought you had some serious questions about Chistianity, and have tried to answer them, but I now wonder if you really wanted the answers, or just wanted to confront me on some things.

In any event, I wish you well.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - wel_mel_2 - 04-03-2006

Bismillah:

Quote:I think we are just wasting both of our time to go on, so I doubt I will be back in this thread, but I do thank you for answering some questions I had about Islam.

I thought you had some serious questions about Chistianity, and have tried to answer them, but I now wonder if you really wanted the answers, or just wanted to confront me on some things.

In any event, I wish you well.[/b]

of course i am serious in my questions but definitely all your answers were depending on faith alone which sometimes make no sense. i myself have studied the Bible and still reading it till this day, i am open minded person and so i don’t believe in 'blind faith'. so anyway, i do respect what you believe and i really do thank you for spending sometime answering my questions.

so now its your turn to ask us about Islam ;)

remember, we love to share our view points so enjoy your stay in peace.

Salam

Wael.

.

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Muslimah - 04-04-2006

Bismillah

salam Don

So does this mean u believe in Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him as a Prophet??

Quote:I will agree that Jesus is a unique miracle. There were many Prophets, including Muhammed, but none of them, other than Jesus were born to a virgin woman who was called in the Quran 

the purest woman on earth. The distinction is that Jesus was not the son of a man (Joseph), but was the Son of God.
God spoke through many messengers/prophets, but only once did he place his own seed in the womb of a virgin, so that his Son might be born on earth, there to give his own life for the sins of all.

If this is the case, how come the bible say otherwise?

http://www.o-bible.com/cgibin/ob.cgi?versi...k=mat&chapter=1

Matthew

Chapter 1

1

1 2 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2

Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.

3

Judah became the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar. Perez became the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram,

4

Ram the father of Amminadab. Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,

5

Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. Obed became the father of Jesse,

6

Jesse the father of David the king. David became the father of Solomon, whose mother had been the wife of Uriah.

7

3 Solomon became the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asaph.

8

Asaph became the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah.

9

Uzziah became the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.

10

Hezekiah became the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amos, 4 Amos the father of Josiah.

11

Josiah became the father of Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the Babylonian exile.

12

After the Babylonian exile, Jechoniah became the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

13

Zerubbabel the father of Abiud. Abiud became the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,

14

Azor the father of Zadok. Zadok became the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud,

15

Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,

16

Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17 Now this is really very interesting, and pls dont get offended or feel i m challenging. I simply went into this site and copied the list. Saying that Joseph son of jacob is the husband of Mary, makes it really confusing. Prophet Joseph prayer and peace be upon him came long time may be something like 100 or more years, not really sure, before Moases

. Can u follow what i m saying? leave alone that they included him in Jesus

Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations; from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations; from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations. 5

18

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesea...ke+3&version=31

23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,

the son of Levi, the son of Melki,

the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,

25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,

the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,

the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,

the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,

the son of Josech, the son of Joda,

27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,

the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,

the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,

the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,

the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,

29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,

the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,

the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,

the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,

the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,

31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,

the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,

the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,

the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,

the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,

33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e]

the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,

the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,

the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,

the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,

35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,

the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,

the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,

the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,

the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,

37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,

the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,

the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth,
 the son of Adam,


the son of God.

Does this imply that Adam is also the son of God?

I m not trying to offend u or mock u really, i m just trying to help u look from a broader perspective.

Shamms thak u for trying to settle my confusion. But I think the above passages are even more confusing.

last but not least, Don when u said that God sent his seed to be inserted in the womb of Mary, does this mean that God has more than one seed? he has a reproductive system? Does he (astaghferullah) have seeds just like humans? in such case, this does not make him god no more....

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Shereen - 04-13-2006

Jazak Allah nice infor sister Muslimah :)

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Muslimah - 04-13-2006

wa iyaki shereen

Penalty of converting to Christianity - Muslimah - 04-21-2006

Bismillah

salam all

I found this other thread that is very relevant to this topic, however, this one being 7 pages and the other being 3. I thought to only put a link to it here. Insh aAllah visitors will find its content useful.

http://www.islamsms.com/bb//index.php?showtopic=2176