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+--- Thread: Let get into the beliefs of the Christians (/showthread.php?tid=6588)
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - Curious Christian - 05-21-2007
Yeah...a good article in that it addresses the topic at hand. I especially like the sources of contemporary Jewish writers who while hostile to Christ report his death...something that Muslims deny.
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - wel_mel_2 - 05-22-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:That's not clever reasoning, Wael I'm not a mother but that doesn't mean I'll never be a mother! God has all the power in the world!
And are you calling “<i>God-man thing</i>” is a smart reasoning? Ok let’s see.
God Almighty, “<i>The Father</i>” had a human son, <b>who was also God </b>Himself, incarnate. God’s son later died on a cross as a sacrifice for all humankind <b>to God Himself</b>. The son, <b>who is God</b>, Himself, was later resurrected and currently sits on the right side of <b>God’s throne </b> waiting to judge humankind at the end of this world.
Are you calling this clever reasoning? Absolutely it is not. The concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.”
Quote:He can do anything at anytime in anyway for any reason!
Really? Can He lie? Can He be unjust? Can he forget, sleep, make mistakes etc…? Yeah He can choose to do all these things of He wish, but the moment He does such things, <b>he ceases to be God</b>. God is an eternal being without beginning or end. If on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, <b>what would be your answer?</b> Since dying is part of “<i>all things</i>,” and "<i>anything</i>" can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.
Therefore, the term “<i>all things</i>” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “<i>all things</i>” that are consistent with Him being God. and so, the claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that <b>the Creator has become His creation</b>, and that’s why in your Bible He declared that <b>He is NOT A MAN, and so he will never be</b>.
Quote:I think it's important to mention that the Catholic understanding of God is very different to Islam's, therefore, I doubt you'll ever comprehend the Incarnation.
Yes, and I doubt that you will be able one day to explain this concept of God becoming a man, I am sure that you too do not fully understand it, unlike in Islam, the concept of God is crystal clear without any confusion, because “<i>God is not the creator of confusion</i>”
Salam
Wael.
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - wel_mel_2 - 05-24-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
More thoughts concerning <b>“the beliefs of the Christians”</b>
According to the Catholic Catechism, Mary is called "<i>the Mother of God</i>", and the reason why she was given such title, because they say, she is the mother of Jesus, and since they believe that Jesus is God, therefore, Mary is God’s mother.
My question is, since Christians believe that Jesus is ‘<i>fully God and fully man</i>”, having 2 natures etc, so, do you guys consider Mary to be the mother of Jesus <b>the man or the God</b>? If she was the mother of Jesus the man, then why do you call her God’s mother? And if you consider her to be the mother of Jesus the God, then how did she conceive God before she was even born?
Thanks in advance.
Salam
Wael.
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - Faith Hope Charity - 05-26-2007
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.
Quote:God Almighty, “<i>The Father</i>” had a human son, <b>who was also God </b>Himself, incarnate. God’s son later died on a cross as a sacrifice for all humankind <b>to God Himself</b>. The son, <b>who is God</b>, Himself, was later resurrected and currently sits on the right side of <b>God’s throne </b> waiting to judge humankind at the end of this world.
Wael, we've been through this a million times.
The Son of God is a Divine Person who assumed a human nature. If you understand this truth, the rest is a walk in the park.
Quote:Are you calling this clever reasoning? Absolutely it is not. The concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.”
I'm calling it brilliant reasoning, Wael! It's impossible for Muslims to understand this because Islam lacks the doctrines like the Holy Trinity, Original Sin, Redemption, Salvation, etc. There's no reason for Allah (SWT) to send His Son (who doesn't exist in Islam) to redeem mankind & make them children of God.
Quote:Really? Can He lie? Can He be unjust? Can he forget, sleep, make mistakes etc…?
God can't lie or be unjust.
Jesus slept because that's what humans do & He did possess a human nature, although He didn't inherit Original Sin because the Blessed irgin Mary was Immaculately conceived (too complicated to go into detail).
Make mistakes? Where on earth did you get a crazy idea like that from? Is that an Islamic belief that Isa made mistakes? Certainly impossible for Jesus in Catholicism.
Quote:God is an eternal being without beginning or end.
Amen!
Quote:If on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, <b>what would be your answer?</b> Since dying is part of “<i>all things</i>,” and "<i>anything</i>" can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.
If One of the Three Persons in God assumes a human nature, then technically speaking, God can die but only in so far as He is human. His can't die in His divinity.
Quote:Therefore, the term “<i>all things</i>” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “<i>all things</i>” that are consistent with Him being God. and so, the claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that <b>the Creator has become His creation</b>, and that’s why in your Bible He declared that <b>He is NOT A MAN, and so he will never be</b>.
Jesus Christ is not a creature. He didn't repent. He is no less divine than Allah (SWT) is. His humanity didn't affect His divinity one bit. You're turning something incredible into something trivial. Don't underestimate the power of God's Love. The Incarnation speaks volumes. I wish I had more time to elaborate but I don't right now. InshaAllah next time I will.
Quote:Yes, and I doubt that you will be able one day to explain this concept of God becoming a man, I am sure that you too do not fully understand it, unlike in Islam, the concept of God is crystal clear without any confusion, because “<i>God is not the creator of confusion</i>”
I'm not confused about Christianity anymore. I used to be but thanks be to God I now understand it all. "I no longer live but Christ lives in me." Alleluia!
Look after yourself, Wael, please pray for Lebanon (& the world in general), & God bless.
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - Faith Hope Charity - 05-26-2007
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.
Quote:My question is, since Christians believe that Jesus is ‘<i>fully God and fully man</i>”, having 2 natures etc, so, do you guys consider Mary to be the mother of Jesus <b>the man or the God</b>? If she was the mother of Jesus the man, then why do you call her God’s mother? And if you consider her to be the mother of Jesus the God, then how did she conceive God before she was even born?
Our Lord's two natures are united into One Divine Person. A woman gives birth to a "person" not a "nature", therefore, it's fitting to call Our Lady, Theotokos (Mother of God/God-bearer).
Hope that makes sense (does anything I say ever make sense to you?) :D :lol: :P ;)
Ciao!
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - wel_mel_2 - 05-28-2007
Bismillah; Assalamo Alikum.
You just blew my mind FHC, I totally can't get any of what you said into my brain. so am going to :sleep2:
Salam
Wael.
Let get into the beliefs of the Christians - soulperson - 06-04-2007
This has reference to what Curious Christian has said about ih his reciting evidence from the Bible........
V. Jesus' Miracles Testify that He is God
Matt. 1:23; Mark 1:27,35 - J2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death"
2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..."
1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..."
2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..." 2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."
Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death]
Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..."
Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."
Jesus was conceived in the virginal womb of the Blessed mother::::::
1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about."
Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you." Fowl do not go upon all four.
Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..." Hare do not chew the cud.
Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof." For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don’t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof."
Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights"
Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..." whales and fish are not related
Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree." There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.
Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.
So which Book do we have to believe???So taking evidence that can confirm Jesus as The Son of God is sensless by all means..
Take care all my pals..
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