Islamic Hijaab - Printable Version

Islamic Hijaab - Printable Version

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Islamic Hijaab - radiyah - 08-06-2004

Alsalam 'alaykom

Jazaky Allah khayr sister Umzakariyah, really she is useless, she does not want to learn, she and her collegue iconoclast , now for sure I consider them non muslims who are trying to refute The Sunnah, and if They refute the Sunnah , then they will refute the Quran. But Allah Subhanahu Wa T'ala will unveil their evil plans. As he did with many others who came to this forum before trying to fight Islam and they did not succeed.

Wasalam 'alaykom wa rhamat Allah Wa Barakatuh

Islamic Hijaab - umm Zachariah - 08-06-2004

As salaam aleikum sister Radiyah,

Alhamdullillah sister I am fine, and hope you are too. This Islamic web-site is very interesting, and the knowledge of the sisters and brothers makes me thank Allah, SWT, for learning us so much. Alhamdullillah.

Yes I understand that not all are likewise interested in finding out His Truth, I assume the reasons for that may differ from person to person. But manipulating is very severe I think. That is playing with fire I guess. But the reason WHY all cannot be reached only Allah, SWT, in His wisdom knows the reason for that.

Yes to me also assalaam aleikum is very important, and a good measure of where people is to be found, within the Ummah or outside.

And sister, mashAllah for all the wonderful words that you wrote to LuL, some of them made me smile - thank you.

For now, assalaam aleikum, your sister in Islam

Islamic Hijaab - Lightuponlight - 08-06-2004

Peace,

Quote:U r useless, u do not want to understand do u, and u did not answer my question, do u know arabic or not, if u dont then I will answer your questions, if u do u need to learn perfect arabic. and stop ordering around as if u are boss around here. I have fully explained what is a khimar according to arabic language, and u r still repeating the same mistakes and u r the one who is still manipulating, words which means u r so ill at arabic language. And the Sunnah issue we will talk about it in another thread and not here. And u better lower your tone of attacking.

I am not attacking, and I told you that I am learning Arabic.

Quote:Wait and be patient and all your attacks will be refuted, and if u r not convinced it is your own problem, u do not accept what we preach here, then u may leave and propagate your Ideas somewhere else, otherwise be patient and u will be answered.
I know that when one is wrong, and does not want to admit, then he/she becomes nervous and starts shouting and attacking, and keeps repeating himself, and that is exactly what I am seeing from u.

LOL! That is exactly what I get from YOU people, that is, ad hominem arguments, locking threads, etc.

I already told you the definition of khimar and its relation to khamra and the root, and the fact that covering the head is nowhere implied in the quran.

The command in that verse, is to simply cover our bosoms, NOT heads. Nice try.

Unless you can show me where The God has said, verbatim, to cover our heads, your arguments hold no weight.

Peace

Islamic Hijaab - radiyah - 08-08-2004

Wa'alaykom Alsalam sister Umzakariyah

Alhamdulilah we know that we are on the right path, and Alhamdulilah that Allah is our

guide, and insha'Allah by his aid we will refute their attacks insha'Allah. The problem is that they do not know arabic, and they want to come and teach us the basis of our language trying to manipulate the meanings to their own whims, but insha'Allah soon it is either they are convinced, or they are out.

Wasalam

Quote:I am not attacking, and I told you that I am learning Arabic.

OOOOOOOOOh really, now u r learning arabic, then u tell me that u want to teach me arabic by saying this:

Quote:I already told you the definition of khimar and its relation to khamra and the root, and the fact that covering the head is nowhere implied in the quran.

The command in that verse, is to simply cover our bosoms, NOT heads. Nice try.

So I will forget my mother language that I learned all my life, and learn the new one that u want to teach me [Image: dry.gif]

Quote:LOL! That is exactly what I get from YOU people, that is, ad hominem arguments, locking threads, etc.

And that is what we got from u, sarcasm and self repetition.

Quote:Unless you can show me where The God has said, verbatim, to cover our heads, your arguments hold no weight.

Well if u r willing to learn the old arabic language that has been taught for centuries, then u will understand what we tried to explain before, me and sister Umzakhariya. But if u want to invent a new arabic language that pleases your whims, well we will have a very big problem here, who will teach who [Image: huh.gif]

.

anyways, as I said be patient , and many answers by Will off Allah and His guidance will be started on a new thread insha'Allah.

Islamic Hijaab - Deen - 08-08-2004

Quote: Bottom line is that if I were to cover up here, I would be a social outcast. No man would ever marry me. We are moderate and modern muslims.

That's a shame hearing you say this...may Allah guide you.

Someone coming from Bosnia it does surprise me to hear such remarks from you. I would have thought after the attrocities by the serbs you would've realised that the only thing to save and go back to is Islam.

You must feel proud being a moderate and modern muslim after the attacks by the Serbs on muslim women. The muslim women were not wearing hijaabs but were still targetted because they were muslim, regardless if they were good or bad muslims.

What is it you are trying to say when you mention modern muslims? Are those women who cover like the wives of the Prophet (saw) backwards?

Are the wives of the Prophet (SAW) not modern if they were here today or would they be classed as backwards?

I suppose the woman who shows more of her body is modern and liberated...that's what the Arabs before Islam thought too!

So to refer to muslims by these terms is very dangerous if we understood their implications.

As for this modern and moderate muslim issue, this is not from muslims nor Islam itself but from the kufaar (non-muslims) who are very good at putting labels on muslims. The non-muslims have created a religion called Moderate Islam, this is a new religion and not what Rasool (saw) bought. This is because moderate means to leave parts of the quran and sunnah and to compromise on our belief...the more we hold tight to the rope of Allah (SWT) the more happiness we will receive in this life and the next inshallah.

Islamic Hijaab - Deen - 08-08-2004

Quote: Peace,
God never commanded the women to cover their heads.

Islamic Hijaab - radiyah - 08-09-2004

Quote: <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lightuponlight" data-cite="Lightuponlight" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="1748" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Peace,
God never commanded the women to cover their heads.

"Ayesha ® reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr ® came to the Messenger of Allah (s) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]

Is that enough evidence for you O' Master of Islamic Knowledge??

Or is there still confusion between where the face is and where the head is?

Sounds like you have been in direct conversation with God and he told you he didn't...

Honestly, some people just argue for the sake of arguing out of ignorance and arrogance.

Peace out!

</div></blockquote>

Al-salam 'alaykom brother Deen

We saw u just for a while on this board then disappeared, well welcome back and it is nice to c u back.

The problem with lul and her collegue is that they are refuting the Sunnah of prophet Mohammad, and they are creating a new arabic language and a new tafseer for the Quran, where from I don't know? [Image: huh.gif]

may Allaah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala save us from such sects. Hasbuna Allaah Wa Ni'ma Al-Wakeel.

Wasalam

Islamic Hijaab - Deen - 08-10-2004

Quote: The problem with lul and her collegue is that they are refuting the Sunnah of prophet Mohammad, and they are creating a new arabic language and a new tafseer for the Quran, where from I don't know? may Allaah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala save us from such sects. Hasbuna Allaah Wa Ni'ma Al-Wakeel.
Wasalam

Wa'alaikum Assalaam WR WB

More like may Allah SWT destroy those munafiq's who distort the words of Allah SWT!

Ibn Jarir said, "The devils of every creation are the mischievous among them. There are both human devils and Jinn devils. Allah said,

[وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَا لِكُلِّ نِبِىٍّ عَدُوّاً شَيَـطِينَ الإِنْسِ وَالْجِنِّ يُوحِى بَعْضُهُمْ إِلَى بَعْضٍ زُخْرُفَ الْقَوْلِ غُرُوراً]

(And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies ـ Shayatin (devils) among mankind and Jinn, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception)) (6:112).

(And when it is said to him, "Fear Allah'', he is led by arrogance to (more) crime.)

This Ayah indicates that when the hypocrite, who deviates in his speech and deeds, is advised and commanded to fear Allah, refrain from his evil deeds and adhere to the truth, he refuses and becomes angry and outraged, as he is used to doing evil. This Ayah is similar to what Allah said:

[وَإِذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايَـتُنَا بَيِّنَـتٍ تَعْرِفُ فِى وُجُوهِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ الْمُنْكَرَ يَكَـدُونَ يَسْطُونَ بِالَّذِينَ يَتْلُونَ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايَـتُنَا قُلْ أَفَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِشَرٍّ مِّن ذلِكُمُ النَّارُ وَعَدَهَا اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ ]

(And when Our clear verses are recited to them, you will notice a denial on the faces of the disbelievers! They are nearly ready to attack with violence those who recite Our verses to them. Say: "Shall I tell you of something worse than that The Fire (of Hell) which Allah has promised to those who disbelieved, and worst indeed is that destination!) (22:72)

This is why in this Ayah, Allah said:

[فَحَسْبُهُ جَهَنَّمُ وَلَبِئْسَ الْمِهَادُ]

(So enough for him is Hell, and worst indeed is that place to rest) meaning, the Fire is enough punishment for the hypocrite.

Islamic Hijaab - radiyah - 08-11-2004

Alsalam 'alaykom

U r right brother, these verses of the Quran fit these 2, Jazzak Allah khayr. But still we hope that they might c the light and truth if they are being mislead by a devious hidden leader that no1 knows who he is but Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'la.

Wasalam 'alaykom WR WB

Islamic Hijaab - Muslimah - 09-13-2004

Quote: Hey,
The word that is being manipulated is the arabic word Khimar, which means cover, any cover. A dress can be a khimar, a curtain can be khimar, a table cloth, a blanket, etc. Khamra is used to mean intoxicant. Khimar and khamra have the same root. Khamra covers the state of mind, whereas khimar covers something physical.

If you look at 24-31, The God is telling the women to draw their khimars OVER THEIR BOSOMS, NOT THEIR HEADS. The Arabic word for head, raas, isn't even in that verse.

Peace.

as salam alykom

Obviously as usual u brought Ayahs missing the parts that u dont want to abide by but for a change she said she is willing to learn, and no one locked their threads:"

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyûbihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.["

Just to let u know the word Khimar is precisely what u use to cover the top of something like when u say khammaral anyah: covered the top of the utensil, so not a curtain or blanket but what u use to cover top of the item. hope this is clear

On this topic I found this excellent article It might be long but worth readying:

The Matter of Hijab (The Headscarf)

The Meaning of Hijab:

Hijab is derived from the trilateral verb `hajaba', which

means `man'a' – to prevent or inhibit.

Imam Fayyumi says:

"It is said of the screen (satr): `hijab,' because it prevents vision

(mushahada). It is said of the doorman: `hajib', because he prevents

(others) from entering. And the origin regarding the hijab is an

object (jism) intervening between two (other) objects. It has also

been used with reference to abstractions (ma'ani). It is said:

Impotence is a hijab between man and his aim. And sin is a hijab

between the servant and his Lord."1

Allah says ((So when you petition them for a provision, petition them

from behind a hijab)). [sura Al-Ahzab: 53]

Based upon this we know that the word hijab means `a screen, veil, or

obstruction.' It is more general than the word khimar, which we will

discuss next.

The Meaning of Khimar:

The khimar originates from the trilateral verb `khamara', which

means `ghatta' – to conceal, hide, or cover up something.

As for khimar, Imam Fayyumi says,

"The khimar is a garment by which a woman covers up her head. And the

plural is `khumur' as in `kitab' and `kutub.'"2

Allah says, ((And let them draw their khumur over their juyub)) [Nur:

31]

The Meaning of Juyub:

The word juyub is the plural of the word jayb. `Jayb' comes from the

verb `jaba', which means `to bring forth someone or something.' It

also means the same as the verb `jayyaba', which means `to cut out

the collar of the shirt.'

As for the word `jayb', as a verbal noun it means `a place from

whence something is brought out' `or an opening, pocket, or purse,'

like the opening of a shirt, the pocket of one's garments, a woman's

womb, or purse.3

Imam Fayyumi says,

"The jayb of the qamis4 is the opening at the throat area."5

This lets us know that the proper understanding to take from this

verse is that juyub means `bosoms', since the jayb is the opening of

the shirt near the throat. And the objective of this covering is to

avoid the display of a woman's ornaments as will later be discussed.

We also know from this that khimar means `head covering.' So the

khimar should be long enough to cover up both the woman's head and

bosom.

Does a Woman Have to Wear a Khimar?

Some Muslims today claim that a Muslim woman doesn't have to wear a

khimar claiming that the Qur'an makes no mention of it or that the

reason for the order to wear the khimar was simply to distinguish

free believing women from slave women.

The concern with this paper is to focus more on the second claim, and

to disprove it on the basis of the rules of proper legal

interpretation as stipulated by the scholars of Arabic language,

Legal Theory, and Law.

There are two verses we want to take a look at in tackling this

issue. The first is Allah's saying in Sura Al-Nur: 31,

((And say to the believing women that they are lower their gaze and

guard their sexual organs; and that they are not to display their

ornaments except for what appears thereof. And let them draw their

head coverings over their bosoms))

And the second is His saying in Sura Al-Ahzab: 59,

((O Prophet! Say to your wives, your daughters, and the women of the

believers that they are to cast their over-garments over them. That

is more convenient, that they be recognized, so that they won't be

molested)).

The claim of the faction permitting believing women to abandon hijab

and khimar altogether is that the reason Allah ordered them to cover

up was to distinguish them from slave women to avoid being harassed

as slave women were. They extract this legal justification (`illa)

from Allah's saying,

((That is more convenient, that they be recognized, so that they

won't be molested))

And women – it is believed - during the time of the Prophet – may

Allah bless and grant him peace – were molested and harassed, because

men mistook them for being slave prostitutes.

Making the following points can refute this claim:

The verse is a reference to wearing the jilbab - over-garment, not

the khimar – head covering. So if it was a legal justification

(`illa) for anything, it would pertain only to the jilbab.6

This kind of `illa (legal justification) is not decisive in

indicating that the reason for the order to have women wear their

over-garments is so that they'd be distinguished from slave women,

firstly because Allah didn't use the lam of purpose (lam al-ta'lil)

or other expressions clearly indicating reason - to express this

understanding. Secondly, Allah didn't expressly say that it is so

that they will be known from those women who are slaves. All He said

was `that is lesser or more convenient, that they'd be known, so that

they won't be molested.' This could just as well mean, `that they'd

be known as believing women, so that they won't be molested as

unbelieving women are.'

What further informs us of the fact that the matter of the khimar and

the jilbab has nothing to do with believing women being distinguished

from slave women is the fact that Allah, after ordering women to draw

their head coverings over their bosoms, He says,

((And let them not display their ornaments except to their husbands,

their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands'

sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons,

or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male

attendants free of sexual desires, or small children who have no

carnal knowledge of women)) [Nur: 31].7

So if the reason for ordering them to do so was to be identified as

freewomen, what reason would Allah have in ordering them to conceal

their beauty from all but the above?

If you were to say:

"These are her relatives who know she is not a slave. So, Allah

allowed her to abandon the hijab and jilbab in their presence,"

Then my response would be:

"Well then, as long as a man knows that the woman is not a slave, she

can expose herself to that man."

But this is ludicrous, as we know.

In addition, it would suggest that Allah lacks wisdom and has wasted

His words in revealing the above verse by detailing those in front of

whom a woman may display her beauty, when all He had to say was that

as long as the man knows that the woman is not a slave, she may

expose herself in front of him.

Difficulty:

"Ok! We concede that the reason for the order was not so that free

believing women could be distinguished from slave women. But we still

say that the khimar and jilbab are not compulsory for women to wear,

because a command in Arabic can have a variety of indications, like

that the thing being ordered is merely favorable to do, or even

permissible. And we hold that the command in the verse is merely a

recommendation. So it cannot be said of one who doesn't do something

that is recommended that it is a sin."

Response:

Yes! An order can have a variety of meanings including those you

stated. However, the overwhelming majority of Arabic linguists and

legal theorists have clarified thoroughly that the apparent and

original indication given by an order (amr) is that the action being

ordered is compulsory to do (wujub). And the only time it carries the

indication of recommendation, permissibility, intimidation,

supplication, prohibition, or any of its other facets is when there

is some inherent or extraneous indicator that it cannot be taken as

such.

As for Imam Shafi'i, there are two different statements reported from

him. In one statement, he holds the same view of the majority in that

it indicates that the act is compulsory to carry out. And the second

view is that the action is recommended. The version accepted by most

Shafi'is is this latter statement.

Nevertheless, this still has no bearing on the point under

discussion, because despite Shafi'i's view, he still holds it to be

compulsory for a woman to wear khimar and jilbab in the presence of

those who are marriageable, as do all over Imams of our tradition,

based on other indicators to that effect.

So to contravene this view is to contravene a long well-established

unequivocal and decisive unanimous agreement that threatens the very

foundation of the person's Islam who claims that it is permissible

for Muslim women to abandon the khimar and proper covering.

Imam Tahawi says in his Aqida,

"And we do not ascribe unbelief to anyone from the People of the

Qibla due to a sin as long as he doesn't declare it to be

permitted."

What this clearly means is that when a Muslim considers a sin to be

permissible, he/she apostatizes from Islam. Of course, that is with

the condition that there is unanimous agreement among the qualified

scholarship of the Ummah that that particular act happens to be a

sin, and that it is something the knowledge of which must be known by

necessity without distinction between the learned and unlearned.

Imam Bayjuri says while commenting on some of the words of Shaykh

Ibrahim Laqqani's Jawhara al-Tawhid,

"The meaning is that whoever has denied a matter known from the

proofs of the religion with the semblance of immediateness (darura)

in such a manner that the highborn (khawass) of the Muslims as well

as the laity (`awamm) know it – (things) like the obligation of

Salat, Fasting, the impermissibility of illicit sexual intercourse,

and the like – (then he) will be killed due to his unbelief (kufr),

because his denial of that necessitates belying the Prophet – may

Allah bless and grant him peace. And his execution is neither a hadd

(determined penalty) nor an expiation (kaffara) for his sin as in the

case of the other determined penalties (hudud). (Whereas) They are

expiators for sins."8

He also says,

"And like he who denies a matter known from the religion by necessity

is he who negates a judgment that has been unanimously agreed upon

decisively (ijma' qat'i)…And the preponderant view is that one

doesn't fall into unbelief unless he negates something unanimously

agreed upon unless it is known from the religion by necessity."

And who is it that doesn't know until recent arguments that it is a

woman's obligation to conceal her hair and other ornaments from those

who are not permitted to see her in such a way?

Difficulty:

Ok! We concur that there is a consensus among Sunnis from the past

that a woman must conceal her legally defined beauty from certain

people. But this consensus is not binding, and is not sufficient to

expel one from Islam, because the Shiites don't consider ijma' to be

authoritative or binding.

Response:

Even if we accepted the objections made by Shiites against the

authority of `ijma to be valid, your argument would still not hold

any weight because if – on one hand - they deny the authority

of `ijma – on the other hand – they don't deny the authority of the

Qur'an. For Allah says, ((And whoever splits with the Messenger after

guidance has become plain to him and then follows other than the way

of the believers, We'll turn him to what he turned to and enter him

into Hell. And how evil a destination!)) [Nisa: 115].

Notice how Allah made entering Hell a consequence of not just

splitting with the Messenger. He made it also a consequence of not

following the way of the believers. And the way of the believers has

dictated since the inception of Islam up to the present day that

women are obliged to observed proper khimar and hijab in the presence

of non-family members and those who they have not been permitted to

expose themselves to.

And this is a matter that even Shiites have also agreed with

historically until the present day. So this is the way of the

believers for both Sunnis and Shiites.

And even if we don't attribute unbelief to the one who deems the sin

of not observing proper covering to not be a sin, we still know from

the explicit words of the Creator that such a person will enter Hell

for not following the way of the believers.

How long will they tarry there? Temporarily or forever? I guess we'll

find out. But would you really want to chance such a thing?

If it's temporary, it will be clear that such a person was still a

Muslim. And if it is forever, it will be clear that one was a

rejecter of faith.

May Allah protect us from going astray after guidance has come to us.

Amin.

Sincerely,

Abdullah bin Hamid Ali

www.lamppostproductions.org

1 Al-Misbah Al-Munir: 67. Al-Maktaba Al-`Asriyya: Sayda Beirut,

1418/1997.

2 Ibid: 96

3 Al-Fara'id Al-Durriyya: J.G. Hava, Goodword Books 2001.

4 Qamis is many times translated as just `shirt'. But it is more like

a dress or dress-like shirt.

5 Al-Misbah: 64

6 This is so even though our argument is that women also cover the

entire body with either an over-garment (jilbab) or something that

does the same job as the jilbab as is the agreement of all orthodox

Muslim scholars.

7 Yusuf Ali's translation.

8 Tuhfa Al-Murid Sharh Jawhara Al-Tawhid: Dar Al-Kutub Al-`Ilmiyya

1422/2001, p. 218.