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Apostasy Punishment in Islam - AhmedBahgat - 07-19-2007
Bismillah:
<b>You have been warned not to use offensive statements towards anyone here. And so your post was removed.
</b>
Salam
Wael.
Apostasy Punishment in Islam - Hadji - 07-19-2007
Bismillah Alrahman Alraheem:
ٱدْعُ إِلَىٰ سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِٱلْحِكْمَةِ وَٱلْمَوْعِظَةِ ٱلْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِٱلَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِٱلْمُهْتَدِينَ
Ahmed, shouldn't you know this verse better than the rest of us that are here. Why? Well, because the amount of scripture that you rely on as religious guidance is a lot more limited than the rest of us.
By the way, are there any books or scholars that you see as some sort of authority? Having <b>only</b> the Qur'an as your only authority makes Islam a lot less of a religion in my opinion. By disregarding the authentic hadeeths, which as the article has mentioned, holds something like 95% of Islamic religious rulings, Islam seems to be extremely similar to Christianity when it comes to interpretation.
When I talk to Protestants, they rarely ever agree about what specific verses are talking about. They disagree on major issues like God's nature and more minor issues like the judgment of the Gentiles that came before Christ.
In my opinion, the reason is because they don't have much to fall back on other than the Bible itself. Not only are a lot of verses vague, but they don't have much to refer to. The result is that every Protestant has his own version of Christianity.
Anyways, I really hope that we can agree upon the meaning which is carried by verse 125 from Al-Nahl. In any case, please treat those that you are trying to convince of your beliefs with respect.
Quote:to parrot what you have been brainwhashed with while yet refusing to prove what you are parroting?
I don't see this as appropriate behavior for a person who sees the Qur'an as his authority.
"Cornering" your opponent and "exposing their confusion" doesn't win converts. It only proves that you are better with your tongue when it comes to games. Truth does a much better job than word-play in the end.
If you are still willing to have a respectable debate, then I am sure that I will benefit a good deal from it.
Thanks.
Apostasy Punishment in Islam - Muslimah - 07-19-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom
Jazakum Allah khairan Haji for your kind words, hope brother Ahmed ponders upon them. Although I m supposed to observe being on topic, however, for necessity, this Ayah Sobhan Allah is being strictly applied by non muslims. Recently I had several interpretation assignments (i work as a translator/interpreter) with media professionals who are holding training here in Egypt. Certainly, participants of those workshops are of various media outlest and different categories, but mostly of senior level, either editors, documentary film directors, managers of radio stations or TV. Well, how did the trainer approach them? did he, behaved from an upper tone of voice telling them he is there to train them and teach them. Not in one single workshop I saw this attitude from the trainer, although they are all prominent figures who are award winners in their respective fields.
Brother Ahmed, did u ever attend a raising of awareness seminar?? did you even take part in articulating a missin or a vision of an entity? Did u see how people address one another.. It is not that any of us is reluctant to talk to u, but none of us is wishing to fight. Big difference.
BTW, if u just took time to really read the whole thread, u will find that what u said of not applying the punishment on one who leaves Islam but does not work against it because apostacy punishment is like capital punishment in espionage or major betrayal of State. But no, u didnt.
Just to make things clearer, when I replied to Radiyah on the other thread, I do still stand for my position regarding putting it a must for one who is thinking to embrace Islam to read Quran in Arabic. That was my main point.
Enough being off topic.
Apostasy Punishment in Islam - Hadji - 07-19-2007
Thanks for the reply Muslimah. There are some interpretors that have said that ٱدْعُ إِلَىٰ سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِٱلْحِكْمَةِ وَٱلْمَوْعِظَةِ ٱلْحَسَنَةِ applies to both Muslims and non-Muslims.
Also, Ahmed doesn't even see us as Muslims. He claims that we are the true enemy. In either case, I believe that the verse is more than suitable in both these situations.
Onto the killing of apostates:
Some have stated that this law is only specific to Islam. This is not the case. It is very clear that those who follow the Old Testament are to abide to the same law.
Deu 13:6 <b>If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,</b> which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him,<b> neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: </b>
Deu 13:9 <b>But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.</b>
Apostasy Punishment in Islam - Muslimah - 07-22-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom
I remember very well making this post 3 days ago, strange it is not there.
Anyway, what is more important Hadji is that non muslims do apply this ayah very carefully. As I work as a translator/interpreter, I had a chance to work closely with 3 media professionals in delivering training to different levels of Egyptian media professionals. You know how did the trainers approach the pariticipants? not once they made them feel they are being trained, all respect and appreciation was shown to them throughout the process. That is why participants were really closely attached to those trainers, leave alone the amount of benefit and knowledge they admitted of having. Mind you those trainers were all prominent figures (award winners in different media outlets including a documentary film director, radio station owner and an editor with a well know US newspaper).
In case they acted otherwise, the participants would surely have lost their interest in even listening regardless of the expected outcome and benefit.
Why cannt we muslims apply this and maintain respect with each other and with others?
And Allah Say:
And by the Mercy of Allâh, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about you Quran 3:`159
;what is best to conclude with?