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+--- Thread: Mormon missionaries. (/showthread.php?tid=6330)
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 12-02-2007
Wel_mel_2, you actually believe that, at one time, Allah was an ordinary human just like us? And you actually believe that, one day, you will be a God with powers greater than the powers Allah now has???
Where in the koran do you find these peculiar beliefs?
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 12-02-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:Wel_mel_2, you actually believe that, at one time, Allah was an ordinary human just like us? And you actually believe that, one day, you will be a God with powers greater than the powers Allah now has???
Where in the koran do you find these peculiar beliefs?
You don’t answer my question with another question Reep, you know what Muslims believe about this matter, I need to get some straight answers please.
How many times have you heard the expression “Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, believe that he died for your sins, get baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and you will be saved”? Is this true or false?
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 12-02-2007
<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: How many times have you heard the expression “Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, believe that he died for your sins, get baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and you will be saved”? Is this true or false? </b>
The expression is true, assuming the person who said it has a correct understanding of what each of those words means. Or, more precisely: the statement is true, if the three creeds (Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian) are used to define all the terms.
For example: some people (including muslims) believe that the holy spirit is an angel. A person who was baptized in "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", but who believes that the Holy Spirit is an angel and not God, is not a Christian.
In regards to the Mormon Church, they reject several key Christian beliefs which are described in the creeds:
- they reject that there is only one God
- they reject that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone
- they believe that Jesus is a creation and not God (although they do believe that Jesus eventually turned into a God)
- they reject the Trinity and instead teach that there are countless Gods, three of whom are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
and so on.
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 12-03-2007
Quote:<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: How many times have you heard the expression “Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, believe that he died for your sins, get baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and you will be saved”? Is this true or false? </b>
The expression is true, assuming the person who said it has a correct understanding of what each of those words means. Or, more precisely: the statement is true, if the three creeds (Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian) are used to define all the terms.
I am sorry to say that your preachers, pastors and other Christian leaders are just deceivers, because when we see them on TV or at their Churches saying loudly "accept Jesus and you will be save" they don't go on saying "ASSUMING YOU HAVE A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT EACH WORD MEANS"... no they don't say that, they just promise eternal salvation for whoever accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and this is exactly what Mormons believes in.
In regards to the protestant, they've omitted 7 whole books from the 'book of God' claiming that they are coming from a doubtful authority, could you please tell me if they are "TRUE CHRISTIANS"?
In regards to the Catholics, they've created images of Jesus, Mary and Joseph the carpenter, and going straight against the one of the 10 commandments by bowing down to them, but yet you can't call them NOT CHRISTANS, because you have got your OWN interpretation to defend you faith.
And so the Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc... each of them have got the conviction that they are on the right path and following the guidance of the same HOLY GHOST, then tell me Reep, how can I as a Muslim determine which group is really saved?
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 12-03-2007
<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: blah blah blah, boy I hate those Christians blah blah blah etc and so forth...</b>
Your post was deleted for lying about me saying something which I didn't say.
If you want to ignore my posts, just ignore them without posting nonsense.
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 12-03-2007
I've read many times that, in order to become a Muslim, all a person has to do is recite the Shahada in Arabic:
<b>There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger.</b>
In the past, I have worked with Ismaili muslims. Since Ismaili muslims have all said the Shahada, I assume that there is agreement amongst Sunni muslims that Ismailies are muslim?
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 12-04-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
SOMEHOW I CAN'T USE THE FORUMS FUNCTIONS.
REEP SAID: I've read many times that, in order to become a Muslim, all a person has to do is recite the Shahada in Arabic:
There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger.
Let me clarify that.
Shahadah is the FIRST step towards ISLAM and not ALL what person needs to be a TRUE MUSLIM BELIEVER. Have you seen any Muslim scholar standing infront of his audience shouting loudly “recite your Shahadah and heavens is yours”? No we don’t do that, we normally explain what Islam is all about before anyone recite his Shahadah, unlike Christian leaders who promise their audience FREE salvation once you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, but anyway, we have established that this is not the REAL case, because according to you, NOT ALL of those who accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviors will be saved, and so the majority of Christians around the world should know about this serious deception.
If you want to know about HOW CAN A PERSON BE A TRUE MUSLIM, please visit this link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1123996016366
REEP SAID: In the past, I have worked with Ismaili muslims. Since Ismaili muslims have all said the Shahada, I assume that there is agreement amongst Sunni muslims that Ismailies are muslim?
In Islam, there is nothing called Ismaili Muslim, Sunni Muslim, or Shi’ah Muslim, all these terms were invented after the death of Muhammad pbuh, they’ve got nothing to do with Islam, and I am strongly against anyone who calls himself by such names which was not introduced by Allah Himself or His massager PBUH.
I always liked the explanation of Sister Muslimah when she said: that in the grave Allah will send his Angels to ask us 3 questions, Who is your Lord? What is your religion? And who is that man who was sent to you to teach you about your religion?
Sister Muslimah said: I wanted to answer the second question correctly, I want to say that I am a MUSLIM, Not SUNNI, NOT SHI’AH, NOT ISMAILI…
“Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allâh, works righteousness, and says, `I am of those who are MUSLIMS” (Qur’ân 41:33)
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 12-04-2007
Wel_mel_2, just to confirm what you are saying...
Let's assume a non-muslim says the Shahadah and honestly believes it (i.e., the person believes there is no God but Allah, and that Mohammad is his prophet). You are saying that this does NOT necessarily make the person a muslim. Correct?
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 12-05-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.
Quote:Wel_mel_2, just to confirm what you are saying...
Let's assume a non-muslim says the Shahadah and honestly believes it (i.e., the person believes there is no God but Allah, and that Mohammad is his prophet). You are saying that this does NOT necessarily make the person a muslim. Correct?
I said that Shahadah does not necessarily make a person a TRUE MUSLIM BELIEVER, there are many "named Muslims people" who are cheaters, thieves, lairs, hypocrites, etc etc and they utter the Shahadah like hundreds of times a day, and they too honestly believe that God is one and Muhammad pbuh is his messenger. Are they considered to be "TRUE MUSLIMS" by Allah? I don't think so.
Let me give you another example so that you can reflect on what am saying.
Allah tells us in the Qur'an:
And perform As Salat (Prayers), Verily, As Salat prevents from Al Fahisha (great sins of every king, unlawful sexual intercourse) and Al Munkar (disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed) Qur'an 29:45
And so, if someone's prayer does not forbid him from doing all kind of great sins and disbelief acts, does his prayers count??? NO Of course not.
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - SisterJennifer - 12-05-2007
Quote:Let's assume a non-muslim says the Shahadah and honestly believes it (i.e., the person believes there is no God but Allah, and that Mohammad is his prophet). You are saying that this does NOT necessarily make the person a muslim. Correct?
If somebody says shahada and sincerly believe in it, then that person eventually will be saved from the fire. There is a sound hadith that tells about the time is coming when there will be people on the earth who dont know anything about religion except that there ancestors used to say la illaha illa Allah, and they will say it too, because they are doing as the ancestors have done. And this is save them eventually from the fire.
Honestly, most Muslims these days are not rushing to pray as soon as the adhan is called, we have alot of problems as brother Wael mentioned and we are far from the levels of the faith of the sahaba. That does not mean that we are not true Muslim believers. It means our faith is not very strong. BUt the basis yes is to declare shahada. We may spend time in hell because of the sins we commit, but if we do not associate partners with Allah we will come out of the fire and enter into paradise. Unlike the polytheitst who makes partner with Allah and this is the big sin that will not be forgiven.