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Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Soledad - 11-23-2003
Quote:So killing them is Halaal, neigh Waajib, for defending the Religion, lives, and country, <b>except in the case of a weakling woman, not capable of anything.</b> The same also applies to their pre-pubescent young. <b>And regarding the weak and sick elderly, whoever fights or aggresses amongst them is killed. And whoever does not, then none should harm them, except that they and the women may be taken as captives.</b> And we will mention the rulings on captives, In Shaa’ Allaah.Can you explain me when the suicide bombers attack on a restaurant for instance if they make a check up before hand and they make sure there are not weak woman there and if they're they take them as captives? because what I know so far, this is not happening! elderly people, children and non-soldier women (civilians) are being killed, not take as captives.
Regards to my religion, I'm a LDS member for the past 16 years.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Abu Dujanah - 11-23-2003
Latter Day Saints
LOL............OK
Anyways my quotes are clear enough, self explanatory!
I will let another muslim answer the question u asked.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Muslimah - 11-23-2003
as salam alykom akhi Abu Dujanah
I think we need to carefully revise the Ayahs of Jihad, I m not a scholar not near one, but as far as I understand them, we not to indulge in war like in Egypt or Sudan as u say without being attacked, and I find your explanation of killing women is some how logical how ever, can not really make an approval. I think we need to do more research..... giving fatwah is actually a responsibilty
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Abu Dujanah - 11-23-2003
walaykum salaam
I did not issue a fatwa sister, anyways here are what two scholars have said :
Ibn Qudamah said: "It is allowed to kill women and children in night attacks and in demolished buildings or ditches, so far as the intention is not to kill them in particular; And it is allowed to kill their (the enemies') animals as a means for killing and subduing them; there is no difference of opinion on this." (Al-Mughniy, with the Sharh -commentary, 10/503)
Ibn Abdil Barr may Allah has mercy on him, said in Al-Istizkar: "There is no dispute among the scholars that whoever fights among women or old men, killing him is allowed, similarly, any child capable of fighting , if he does may be killed." (Al-Istizkar vol. 14, p 74). Similarly, Ibn Qudamah reported the Ijamaa' on killing women, children and old men if they help their people; Ibn Abdil Barr said: "They have a concensus on the fact that the Prophet killed Duraid bin on the Day of the Battle of Hunayn because he was an experienced in war and contributed his opinions. Thus whoever is like that among old men deserves to be killed according to all (scholars). (At-Tamheed, vol. 16 p 142)
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Muslimah - 11-24-2003
as salam alykom akhi
I never meant u issuing fatwah, I am aware of those two opinions. I meant that jihad has rules, we must abide by them. no one can ignore jihad a fundamental issue in Islam; we just have to implement it right.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Purgetroy - 11-24-2003
Quote:I never said u killed them so we will kill urs. I never even implied that, i was just merly asking a question. What was there crime???? Why isnt your so called 'CIVILISED SOCIETY' calling this terrorism???? Oh yeah you have CNN to tell you what is terrorism and what isnt.first of all, know this. i am a muslim and an arab. i live in saudi arabia and am originaly syrian and so are my parents and my grand parents.
what happened in Iraq and Afganistan are crime which the american government has commited and should be punished for. and when i say government, i mean the people in the pentagon and the white house. not the children in the streat or the family having lunch in some restaurant. just so that you know the difference
![[Image: rolleyes.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)
.Quote:What happpened in usa (9/11) are Martyrdom Operations.no, what happened in 9/11 is worse than what happened in Iraq. even if the US have rampaged our lands, scorched our farms and raped our woman, slaughtered our children and inslaved our men. are we like them? do you want to be like them? we are muslims and we have laws for everything, even war. the jihad laws, as far as i can remember are as follows
trees shouldnt be harmed
women shouldnt be harmed
children shouldnt be harmed
handicaped men shouldnt be harmed
anyone inside his house shouldnt be harmed.
any transgresion against these laws is transgration against the laws of Allah. and all these laws are being broken by your suicide bombers.
and please, dont give me anything from modern age sheikhs, until this day i only found 3 decent sheikhs. all the others cant tell the difference between an apple and a pen. would you believe that a sheikh once said that people who listen to metal are satanic and homosexual? well surprise surprise. i listen to metal and am no less muslim than you. and certainly not homosexual. this is realy pathetic! my brother has a metal band. they sing a type of metal that is very heavy, called death metal.
Quote:The hadeeth goes to say that there were brothers fighting the Romans, and they were martyred, because they penetrated into the forces of the enemy. So some of the mujahideen said: \"Oh these people have forced destruction upon themselves by their own hands\" so basically Abu Ayoob said: \"Verily, this ayah was revealed in our presence, the Ansaar\" and he corrected their understanding by saying that the one who doesn't participate in the Jihaad and the one who isn't killed, the one who remains amongst his family, and his wealth and whatever else is beloved to him - he is the one who has caused destruction upon himself.what did the muslim soldier do? did he kill woman and children at random? why, tell me one good reason why suicide bombers are aiming on a restaurant. just one. did the muslim soldiers go to war and attacked a small shop massacaring its civilians? NO!
your verses and hadith only shows that we should die for our religion. doesnt show anything that supports killing inocent people just because they are the natives of the enemy country or because they have a different faith.
on the other hand, i have verses straight from the qoran and that doesnt need any moron sheikh to interepert. they are as clear as the sun in the day time and support my say.
"God forbids you not, with regards to those who fight you not for [your] faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just. (60:8)
"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Quran 2:190)
"If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 8:61)
"There is no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error". (2:256)
and these verses are just a few i can pick up in a quick scan of the interenet.
Abu Dujana, may you remember that alot of muslims are western converts. in other words, we are all human, what ever the hell our faith is. the least you can do is show a little bit of respect to our brother Soledad. At least he had the guts and open mindedness to come to an islamic forum and speak sensibly with all the nonsense the western media is shedding on its people.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Abu Dujanah - 11-24-2003
Sa'ab bin Jathamah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported from that the Prophet was asked about the people in the homes of Mushrikun (Polytheist) when they are attacked at night and their women and children are affected, he said: "they are part of them".
Can you comment on the above hadeeth????
So, this Hadith shows that women, children and all those the killing of whom is forbidden, when they are separate, it is permissible to kill them when they are mixed up with the fighters and it is not possible to separate. This is because they had asked the Prophet about the case which is "attacking at night", in which case it is not possible to differentiate, and he permitted them because "things may be allowed when they occur along the way but be forbidden when separate".
Ibn Hazm, commenting on the Hadith that "Banu Quraidah were paraded before the Prophet, and he ordered the killing of all those who had attained puberty", said: "this is a general ruling from the Prophet, since he did not leave out an old man, a merchant, a farmer or any other person; this was related from him with genuine Ijmaa' (Al-Muhallaa vol. 6 p. 299)
Which modern age sheikhs have i quoted from that you dont agree with???
You said you only found 3 decent sheikhs, why was this? Or maybe you want scholars to give fatwas out that agree with your desires???? Like that fool who said democracy, music, riba etc etc are Halaal......You would be suprised to see have many 'muslims' search for 'scholars' that will give fatwahs so they could do haraam stuff.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Purgetroy - 11-24-2003
Quote:But Now, their women are soldiers, fighting with their males side by side, and those who are not soldiers are she-males (acting like men), they fire at the Muslims without any restraint nor determent. So killing them is Halaal, neigh Waajib, for defending the Religion, lives, and country, except in the case of a weakling woman, not capable of anything.oh this is pathetic! there is also a story where a muslim woman dressed like a man and fought in the front lines with the muslims and the muslim army only knew that she was a woman until after the war.
woman didnt change physicaly. woman are still woman. they could hold swords at the time of the prophet and so can they now. humanity is a threat onto its own. you cant eliminate that threat by destroying humanity. unless you have a communist brain. try reading George Orwel's book "Ninteen Eighty Four" and you'll know your mentality of killing anyone who <i>might</i> pose a threat.
the Qoran says to be ready for any attack from the enemy. did you wonder why Allah didnt say to attack any threat and only said to be always ready for attacks? because Allah is against offending a nation that hasnt offended us. a nation is divided into several parts brother. there are the civilians, the police and the army. and enemy nation is an enemy army. the civilians and the police are only people trying to do their jobs and live within the community. just because there are more hebrew woman in the Israeli military doesnt mean that we should kill all hebrew women. you should remember that there are alot more hebrew woman that dont know how to use a gun and only want to raise their child. that child could have been you, or it could have been a baby that will grow up to be a man that might have converted to islam and done alot of things for our nation.
Quote:The same also applies to their pre-pubescent young. And regarding the weak and sick elderly, whoever fights or aggresses amongst them is killed. And whoever does not, then none should harm them, except that they and the women may be taken as captives. And we will mention the rulings on captives, In Shaa’ Allaah.that i believe is the only argumentive matter in all your posts. i believe that slavery is a thing of the past. right now, it is looked down upon and the world sees it as a crime, as it is because of the change of time. in the past, slavery of war captives was common and acceptable. even in the bible slavery is not looked down upon. but now things have changed. there is no need for slaves anymore. i believe that in these times, anyone who own another human (slave) is a sick desperate man.
Quote:And we said “It is Waajib upon each Muslim, anywhere in the world, to wage war against them and to kill them, wherever they are, whether they are civilians or military.” We said this meaning every letter of that sentence’s implications.who are you quoting? i know for sure you are not quoting a verse from the Qoran nor the Hadith. so who are you quoting?
Quote:So wherever the Muslim is, and whatever ethnicity or nationality he may have, then it is obligatory upon him just as it is obligatory upon us in Egypt and Sudan. Even the British Muslims in their lands [britain], if they are really Muslims, it is obligatory upon them just as it is obligatory upon other Muslims, as much as they are capable of doing. And if they are incapable, then Hijrah becomes obligatory upon them away from the enemies’ lands, or any land where they are not capable of waging war against the enemy as Allaah Has Commanded them."If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 8:61)
define enemy. what is an enemy to you? as much as I can tell from what you say, an enemy for you is anyone who doesnt beleive in what you believe in. thats not only selfish and racist, but against the teachings of the Qoran. reread the Qoranic verses I gave.
Quote:Latter Day Saints LOL............OKwhat are you laughing at? your laughing at his faith? are you laughing at thousands of people who follow that same faith?
its kind of strange realy. when i here alot of muslims crying and claiming that they are not having religous freedom in western lands. they also claim that people are not to treating them well. and then when we look at their acts, we see people like you, laughing at them, calling to kill them, and getting arms and terrorising their lands when you yourself are a forigner, a visitor there. i realy dont blame the west for restricting muslim imigrants or making alot of checkup on muslims who live there. because of people like you.
about Ibn Qudama and Ibn Adul Bar, they do not represent all the muslims. they represent a small school of thought. they give their own interpetation and ideas. in other words, i dont care what they say. give me passages straight from the Qoran or Hadith without any twists and turns.
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Abu Dujanah - 11-24-2003
Next you gona say dont attack the army becuase the soliders are doint their job..........LOL.
Brother wake up, the enemy is attacking the muslim, they are raping our women, killing the scholars and imprisoning the muslims, and you are telling me the kuffar want peace........COME ON, WHAT PLANET YOU LIVING IN????
, the west tell you what is good and bad, so they tell you homesexuality is not a crime but having more then 1 wife is something bad, come on tell me where in the Islamic Shariah does it say that owning a slave is haraam???
Stop making things haraam when Allah and His Messenger made it Halaal.
Yes im laughing at them Kuffar, got a problem with that? Look how evil they are and yet they are so arrogant.
Ibn Qudama and Ibn Adul Bar, they were good scholars, and they are from ahlus sunnah wal jamaah, are you?
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brother Abu I think we need to calm our tones here a bit, we here to learn and discuss not to fight. we may do in an Islamic manner pls. Jazakum Allah khairan Eid Mubarak
Family 'proud' of suicide bomber - Abu Dujanah - 11-24-2003
or btw its Quran and not Qoran.
Do you believe the Islamic Shariah is backward cuz your beloved west say it is???