Quote:You do understand that there is a theory that constitutes how planets are formed within nebulas right? All stars form from clouds of gas and dust which roam our galaxy. Eventually, gravity causes the cloud to collapse; since the cloud is spinning, material falls in along the \"poles\" faster than it does near the \"equator\". This flattening results in a disk-like object. Material slowly wends its way into the center of this disk, forming a new star. While the star continues to grow, lumps form in the disk which will ultimately become planets.

Quote:How do you know Allah created all of this? Perhaps a higher being, maybe? Beyond us anyway. And this is also what I see. War, hunger, repent, murder, slavery, prostitution, greed, tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, disease, neglect, torture, and death. This may not be as good of a planet as you think my friend.

Quote:Salaam Alaikum!Fascinating!  ;)  

--ibn

Quote:This is by God's will. Not by anybody's... No matter how many theories explain the birth of stars and such, land is still the miracle that does not exist anywhere else.... no evidence is existing.... all fiction and  books to  sel most by fascinating ideas that lure the reader to read more of same book and such... dont go into cycles of deception, Hazam!!.. etc... take care of yourself, ha?

Quote:as salam alykom  Brother, re read Hazam's post, he didnt say no power, he is aware that there is a super power that Created all this, he is just reluctant to say Allah, he says how can we be certain Allah Did all this, may be a higher being. Just re read the post.

Hazam's only problem is not to admit Allah Created all this, he wants to find another power, U know why my brother, because believing this will certainly lead him to the true way with restrictions. He prefers to be illusively free.

Brother just look at this Ayah:\"And they belied them (those Ayât) wrongfully and arrogantly, though their ownselves were convinced thereof \" (Quran 27:14)

Quote:How do you know Allah created all of this? Perhaps a higher being' date=' maybe? <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="1590" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>
I said that there 'might' be a higher being involved in this. Who knows. However, I want to mention something that has been on my mind for a while now regarding my position on religion. I really wish I was a religious man. But as hard as I have tried in the past, I cannot commit to its grasp. Now, let me explain why. When I think logically about faith, I am dumbfounded about how many fallacies exist within it.

I believe that reality is based upon all that exists. Religion, in all forms, assumes that the Supreme being X (God, Allah, etc) exists outside this reality. These two statements contradict each other. If reality is all that exists, then by definition, if God exists, God is part of that reality. This, furthermore, contradicts the statement that God exists outside of what we call 'reality.' However, the same claims can be made towards an atheist and his claims that God does not exist. Think about it.

If you guys have read any western philosophy, then you will have known of a very famous man named St. Anselm who tried to prove the existence of God by use of what he called the "Ontological Argument." This is one of the oldest arguments in theology. It is also one of the most difficult to understand because it relies purely upon logical considerations and not at all upon empirical evidence. Here is a clip of one of his arguments that he proposed on God's existence.

"Assuredly that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot exist in the understanding alone. For, suppose it exists in the understanding alone: then it can be conceived to exist in reality; which is greater. Therefore, if that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, exists in the understanding alone, the very being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, is one, than which a greater can be conceived. But obviously this is impossible. Hence there is no doubt that there exists a being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, and it exists both in the understanding and in reality."

The argument that in order for a being to qualify as "Greatest" it must have the quality of "existence." If this "Greatest" being were simply an idea in people's minds, then it would not have its own existence and, hence, wouldn't really qualify as "Greatest" anymore. Basically, this argument is utter nonsense. Just think about it. The argument he put forth follows a fine line. This fine line allows us to believe that every 'perfect' thing that we can think of must exist in reality. As you guys know from existence within itself, that this is a logical fallacy (i.e. I can make an argument for the perfect vacation resort, the perfect island, the perfect meal, etc...).