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How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - ronniv93 - 10-25-2004
Umm_Zachariah,
The book is called "Ulum Al-Quran" by Ahmad von Denffer, a Muslim. Not a non-Muslim seeking to somehow attack the Quran.
Shameem,
Quote:if the person leading the prayers makes a mistake an individual behind him will correct him.
Okay, great. But that is in TODAY'S times, AFTER the Quran was standardized. There was a time in the past where a similar situation occured to what you just described and one Muslim was reciting the Quran differently from the way the other Muslim knew. I know that many will claim that this is just one of the "7 readings". But the fact remains that there was something different in words, pronunciation, etc.
So, yeah... after all the other copies of the Quran were burned, you have 1 standard text today. But hadith recordings lets us know that there WERE and ARE some differences between texts. Now, maybe these differences did not affect anything doctrinally that Muslims believe, but they do/did exist. Why do Muslims seem to have such a hard time just admitting this??
:-S
It doesn't change or affect your faith in some way, does it? I mean, the important thing is your relationship with Allah, right? So why so much emphasis in this Book never having any differences? It's like the book is being worshipped, to me.
Quote:the problem with the bible is that it was changed by hands of men . why is it that the 4 canonical gospels in the bible begin with "according to". it seems to me that they were opinions according to these writers.
This doesn't make sense to me.
See... Muslims believe that the Gospel was an actual BOOK. Like what was composed under Muhammad. But that is incorrect. The Gospel is the MESSAGE ABOUT Jesus, the Anointed One. Thus, if I go out and minister, I am preaching "The Gospel". If my next door neighbor goes somewhere different, uses different words than I do, but the MESSAGE is still about Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for us, THAT is "The Gospel."
Do not think that the word means the same thing between us, because it doesn't. So, for the Christian (i.e., Me), there is nothing "strange" about the words "according to". All 4 teach the exact same things. They may have different stories, etc., but all point to the same person and what He taught, believed and what His purpose was in coming to Earth.
Quote:and this why they some of them contradict one another.
No they do not.
Quote:did you know thet there were originally 70 gospels but only 4 were chosen .
Okay, first you try to show that having different Gospels "according to" different people proves that there is something wrong. Now, you're saying that we should have 70 of them.
And everything that has the name "Gospel" on it does not mean that it was TRULY the message of Christ.
Do you know what FORGERIES are?
Do you know what HERETICS are?
Were there not some forged hadith?
Just because something has the title "hadith" on it doesn't make it original, true or accurate. Same thing with the Bible. A lot of people tried to imitate the TRUE message about Jesus and some invented their own stories. So when these documents surfaced, they faced scrutiny, as they should.
Do you know that some of these so-called "gospels" you refer to record Jesus as saying ridiculous things like, "If a man eats a lion, then the lion becomes man"? Do you think Jesus would say something so silly? So why should we accept something just because someone put the term "gospel" on it.
Similarly to what you say about Islam, there were hundreds and thousands of believers who WERE acquainted with Jesus and His teachings. Thus, when they heard something that contradicted what they knew, it was rejected. Very simple, really.
Quote:why i don't know. the catholic church tried to hide many of them because a lot of them told the truth and they feared losing their powers over the people if the people knew the truth.
There WAS NO Catholic church in the beginning. In the beginning, there was just THE CHURCH. I know it's popular to blame everything on the Catholic church, but a lot of things that are stated simply aren't true. There is CLEAR evidence that ALL 4 GOSPELS we have today were circulated, used and studied among the early church which was NOT what we know of today as the "Catholic Chuch".
Quote:i have heard many christians refute the gospel of barnabus even though it was translated from its original armaic to english by a couple of christian individuals.
<b>*SIGH*</b>
Anyone who believes this document, I must conclude, WANTS to believe a lie. There <b>IS NO ARAMAIC</b> copy of this silly book. There is only ONE copy, dated to the Middle Ages written in Latin. And there is clear evidence in the book itself that the person who wrote it did not live in the time of Jesus. They make reference to men wearing <b>hosiery</b> and claimed that they sailed to parts of the Jewish land which are nowhere near any sea port at all.
Quote: barnabus was with christ unlike theother so called disciples.
Wow! This is truly amazing! Barnabas did not become a follower of Jesus until AFTER His death! How do you even known anything about Barnabas unless you read our so-called "corrupted Bible"??? And if you read the Bible, you will easily see that Barnabas had to learn about Jesus from other disciples who DID walk with Him, because Barnabas did not.
Where do you get your information from??? :-S
Quote:i suggest you open up your mind and truly contemplate christianity and look at its origin and compare it with what jesus really said.
Oh, and I suppose that what Jesus really said is contained in the "gospel of barnabas"??? Every REAL scholar doesn't even fool with that nonsensical book because it is so easily proven to be a forgery.
How can you tell me to open up my mind to a lie?
Quote: remember that back in those days there were many ideas that had god/son relationships.
Well, some would say that just about everything about Islam was part of some other religion, even the idolators of Arabia, and Christian and Jewish fables. Does that negate what you believe and have faith in? No.
And I have studied all of those so-called comparisons of Christianity with ancient religions, too.
Look.... why all the Christian/Bible attacks?
Islam should be able to stand on it's own without having to put down other faiths.
But every time I look around, that's what I see: Islamic apologists trying to somehow bolster Islam by insulting other faiths. Yet, if people subject Islam to the same type of scrutiny, it's called racist, hatred or some other ugly name.
Why the double-standard?
How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - ronniv93 - 10-25-2004
If I can help even 1 person learn ANYTHING, then perhaps someone will finally come to recognize this silly "gospel of barnabas" for the forgery and fake that it is.
I am posting a link to a non-Muslim, non-Christian site that shows just SOME of the reasons for rejecting this document as a forgery. It is an online encyclopedia of information about this forgery: Brainy Encyclopedia
To quote some passages of the site:
Quote:The Gospel of Barnabas makes naive errors in geography, has Barnabas sailing to land-locked Nazareth, had Jesus born during the rule of Pontius Pilatus, which didn't begin before the year 26, does not realize that 'Christ' means 'anointed.'
'Jesus confessed and said the truth, "I am not the Messiah"' (''Barnabas, ch. 42)
'Then said the priest: "How shall the Messiah be called?" {Jesus answered} "Muhammed is his blessed name" ' (ch. 97).
- The book even contradicts your Quran, so why would you believe in it?
- This person does note even understand the meaning of the word "Christ" OR "Messiah", so why would you believe in it?
- This person doesn't know basic geography of the very land he supposedly grew up in, so why would you believe it?
How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - shameem - 10-27-2004
to ronnie- i told you to go look up the history of christianity and look how it came about. you seem to rejecting the truth.and accepting the falsehoods of christiianity. it is pagan infested religion. why dont you accept this? it seems you are following a desire. remember, barnabus did live in the time of christ. the authors of the four gospels were not even near him. " there will come a time when islam will be yhe religion of the west"-goerge bernard shaw.
How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - ronniv93 - 10-27-2004
Shameem,
Why do you ASSUME that I know nothing of my own faith? I know all of that. To you, it's rejecting truth. Someone who is a non-Muslim might say that YOU are rejecting truth by following Islam.
As for me "accepting the falsehoods of Christianity," well, I have yet to hear someone prove to me some "falsehoods of Christianity".
And as I asked in an earlier post, why all the Christian/Bible bashing anyway? I mean, what is the purpose?
It may seem to you that I am following some desire, but I follow only what I believe to be truth. When I first began to study Islam, I made up in my mind that if I found Islam to be true and Christianity untrue, then I would lay down all that I had learned and believed and become Muslim. And if I were going to become Muslim, I would do it with my whole heart - hijab and all.
So, I desire nothing but to love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul and strength.
As for your other comment:
Quote:barnabus did live in the time of christ.
Yes, I know this already. BUT, he became a disciple ONLY AFTER Christ's death and resurrection.
And besides, what difference does THIS make? It does not prove that he wrote that fake book. All real scholars don't even waste their time with that silly thing.
Quote:the authors of the four gospels were not even near him. "
You ask me to research how my "religion" came about but then make a statement like this?
This statement is false all the way through. I don't know where you got this from but it is incorrect. 3 of them were part of the 12 disciples/apostles who lived and walked and talked with Jesus on a daily basis. The 4th one was a disciple OF those very same people who walked and talked with Jesus, so he learned directly from them.
How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - umm Zachariah - 10-28-2004
Salam,
''QUOTE
the authors of the four gospels were not even near him. "
You ask me to research how my "religion" came about but then make a statement like this?
This statement is false all the way through. I don't know where you got this from but it is incorrect. 3 of them were part of the 12 disciples/apostles who lived and walked and talked with Jesus on a daily basis. The 4th one was a disciple OF those very same people who walked and talked with Jesus, so he learned directly from them.''
After making an inquiry to a angelican priest he gave me this answer:
''According to tradition, Matthew and John were members of the twelve.
Mark was one of Jesus' followers, but not one of the twelve, and Luke was a gentile believer, not one of Jesus' followers. (Luke explains at the beginning of his gospel how he compiled it.)''
Regards
How Jesus Christ (pbuh) Described The Glory Of Pro - ronniv93 - 10-28-2004
I looked it up myself and I believe you are correct, umm_Zachariah. John Mark, the author of the Gospel of Mark was a disciple of Peter who was one of the original disciples/apostles.
Thanks for the correction.