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Quranic Miracles - wel_mel_2 - 10-27-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:Surely you jest Wel_Mel ? The nonsense contained in these sources is proof enough.
am sorry, but what kind of nonsense did you find in these sources? can you give me an example? or you just like talking :conf06: you didn’t even read or listen to the sources that i've provided to come up with such judgment!! didn’t you say <i>I won't waste my time with the video link as it would be a complete waste of bandwidth</i>. Then how did you come to your conclusion that these sources are nonsense? actually what you are saying is pure nonsense. :closedeyes:
Salam
Wael.
Quranic Miracles - wel_mel_2 - 10-30-2006
Bismillah:
Francis Bacon, one of the famous philosophers, rightly said that <b>a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God </b> So it seems that you are totally ignorant of this field. You can't even show me a single 'thing' of the nonsense that you are talking about, and you will surely not be able to contradict the “scientists” statements regarding the Qur'an. all what you can do is TALKING.
Salam
Wael.
Quranic Miracles - wel_mel_2 - 11-07-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:Wel_Mel, I'll say it again. You just saying that this is science does not make it so. I took a look at your sources and none of them were scientific. Not even close. Just a hodge podge of wishful thinking. Dream on.
And I will say again, just show me one example of that which is unscientific in those srouces, or else don’t post again in this thread.
Salam
Wael.
Quranic Miracles - wel_mel_2 - 11-08-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:<i><b>Mountains</b></i>
Mountains are huge chunks of stone rocks. They exist on abigger chunk called the Earth. Both are from the same material. Usually people consider that mountain are huge chunks which sit on another bigger chunk. But when Man probed various layers of the Earth, he found that mountain penetrate the fur layer of the Earth. This first layer is fifty kilometers Thick Mountain bases get linked with the Earth is armoring one. However to protect the upper layer of the Earth from being affected by the second moving layer Allah the exited in might fixed it by mountains which penetrate the Two layers satiation the first one Mountain fix the first layer just like the peg which foxes the tent. Therefor researchers found a root under each mountain which penetrates the layer of the Earth Researcher were amazed when they found that this fact has been revealed in the holy Own Quern says “And the mountains as pegs? “78:7” It also says And the mountain Hath He firmly fixed “79:32 Another Ironic verses He set on the earth mountains standing firm lest it should shake with you “31:15” Source the Age of faith dawned” By: Skaikh Abdel Majeed El Zindai
<b>This is not science. I can't even put into words what it is but it is certainly not science.</b>
And do you think by saying this you are proving your point? Please note that <b>merely making a claim is no basis of anything. The claim needs to be proven</b>… but you are excellent of making claims ONLY.
Now you need to learn something about mountains to see whether the Qur’an is compatible or not with modern science discoveries.
Quote:Now you need to go and ask the Geologists, and they will tell you that the radius of the Earth is approximately 3750 miles, and the deeper layers, they are hot and fluid, and cannot sustain life. And the superficial part of the Earth’s crust, which we live on, it is very thin - Hardly 1 to 30 miles. Some portions are thicker, but majority one to 30 miles. And there are high possibility that this superficial layer, the Earth’s crust - it will shake. It is due to the ‘Folding phenomenon’, which gives rise to mountain ranges, which gives stability to this Earth. And Qur’an says in Ch 78, V 6 and 7…‘We have made the Earth as an expanse and the mountains as stakes.’ The Qur’an does not say, mountains were thrown up as stakes… mountain as stakes. Arabic word ‘Autaad’ means ‘stakes’… meaning ‘tent peg’. And today we have come to know in the study of modern Geology, that mountain has got deep roots. This was known in the second half of the 19th century. And the superficial part that we see of the mountain, is a very small percentage. The deeper part is within - Exactly like a stake how it is driven in the ground. You can only see a small part on top… the majority is down in the ground - or like a tip of the ice berg…you can see the tip on the top and about 90% is beneath water.
Yes Yes john I copied this information from the net, but you need to verify and check up with people of knowledge whether what was written is true or fales if you are truly serious and honest in your discussion. I myself have heard scientists confirming the truth about this information, and many of them accepted Islam Alhamdulelah. So if you are again going to make claims… that will never prove anything of what you are saying.
Salam
Wael.
Quranic Miracles - NaSra - 11-08-2006
Quote:This is not science. I can't even put into words what it is but it is certainly not science.
What do you even know about science? All you do is mock, you obviously lack the capability to "reason". Something that does not come cheap unfortunately, it takes learning and intelligence. We're talking facts here, and you are in la la land.
When you get to the "level, of understanding, and reasoning" do come and talk to us.
If intelligence was chocolate you wouldnt even fill an m&m, thats what you have proven on this forum!
Quranic Miracles - wel_mel_2 - 11-09-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:These are just vague generalisations. It is meaningless and nothing to do with science. It's like me saying, that big yellow thing in the sky, it must be pretty hot up there and me claiming a scientific discovery. You need to do better than that for science.
and since you found them vague, then go and ask experts. But don’t make claims that they are 100% unscientific without proof.
Salam
Wael.
Quranic Miracles - Khairan - 11-09-2006
Here is an excerpt from an essay by Jeremiah McAuliffe Jr., PhD, a revert from Catholicism. I think he makes some excellent points which it is useful to remember when trying to have this discussion with non-Muslims.
Quote:Muslims set themselves up for problems when they try to convince non-Muslims of the truth of the Qur'an by resorting to the "scientific facts" approach to the Qur'an, or by portraying the Qur'an as some kind of a history book. It is not. It is a type of literature we call "scripture" and needs to be read properly as a scripture. (Indeed, does not the Qur'an itself mention something of how to read it?)
We do not read a book of poetry in the same way that we read a book on the science of botany. They are two different literary genres. Interestingly, both types can communicate truth about reality, but by using different methods of communication and styles of literature. We can read a poem about a tree and say "Yes, that is true of trees". We can also read a scientific paper about a tree and say the exact same thing, but if we treated the poem like a scientific paper, or expect poetic beauty from a scientific paper we are going to be in big trouble rather quickly! So too, when Muslims treat the Qur'an as something it is not. We then have only ourselves to blame when anti-Muslims ridicule us by turning this against us.
When we understand the dynamics of literary genre and how that effects our understanding of any book whatsoever we are armed with a powerful weapon to refute the false statements of anti-Muslims.
Quranic Miracles - Dan - 11-09-2006
Bismillaha
As Salam alaikum
Correct me if I am wrong bc I am alot but I think the whole point of this thread was to point out interesting aspects of the Qur'an that would make any rational mind stop and pause. How a desert illiterate knew that mountains extended deep into the earth, how this illiterate knew the stages of microscopic embryological development, how he knew 1400 years ago what has only just been "discovered" in the Western world in the last one to two hundred years should provoke some reflection on exactly what kind of book the Qur'an is.
I do not believe (insert correction here) that anyone on this board would claim that they believe in the Qur'an solely because of the scientific aspects of it. But this aspect can serve to strengthen what already exists.
The Qur'an can be perceived by people in many different lights. Some say the most wondrous aspect of the Qur'an is the language which it uses. Some say that it is the legislation that it institutes. Some say it is the beauty of the recitation. Some say that it is the scientific discoveries which it has. Some say it is the precision by which it was preserved. All of these perceptions and more are true and entail what is the Qur'an.
A person who is not amazed by the preservation that has been verified, by the exalted level of language which cannot be emulated, by the recitation that has no equal, or by the justice it mandates is certainly not going to be impressed by scientific elements contained in the Qur'an. For to accept one perception of the Qur'an as amazing is to open the door to complete acceptance of the Qur'an's miraculous nature as a whole.
Who better knew the Arabic language than the Quraish at the time of the Prophet saws? They heard the message directly from the Messenger saws, could not bring anything close to it, but still did not believe in it. Non-muslims have also verified the authenticity of the Qur'an as being verbatim the same words as spoken by the Prophet saws. Did all of these verifiers become muslim?
Of course, our current situation will be no different. Even as more levels of the Qur'an are exposed to mankind, there will be deniers. This fact is stated in the Qur'an itself. So it is not shocking to see some non-muslims reject what seems so apparent to muslims and some non0-muslims, like Keith Moore.
"Muslims set themselves up for problems when they try to convince non-Muslims of the truth of the Qur'an by resorting to the "scientific facts" approach to the Qur'an, or by portraying the Qur'an as some kind of a history book. It is not. It is a type of literature we call "scripture" and needs to be read properly as a scripture. (Indeed, does not the Qur'an itself mention something of how to read it?)"
I must disagree with this statement. Many converts, especially from the judaic-christian background, have a difficult time transitioning from the seperation of the spiritual life and the rest of life that these traditions enhance to the basic understanding that Islam is not just religoius, emotional, or governmental, rather, it IS life. Because every element of our humanity is covered by our Islam, we need a book to completely address it all, the Qur'an. When some disbelievers are unable to understand the Qur'an and Islam in its totality, it is not the deen that is lacking. It is their misunderstanding, their blindness, their kufr-literally meaning to cover up.
Indeed the Qur'an has told us how to read it and what it covers:
"030.058
YUSUFALI: verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable: But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities."
PICKTHAL: Verily We have coined for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes; and indeed if thou camest unto them with a miracle, those who disbelieve would verily exclaim: Ye are but tricksters!
SHAKIR: And certainly We have set forth for men every kind of example in this Quran; and if you should bring them a communication, those who disbelieve would certainly say: You are naught but false claimants.
030.059
YUSUFALI: Thus does Allah seal up the hearts of those who understand not.
PICKTHAL: Thus doth Allah seal the hearts of those who know not.
SHAKIR: Thus does Allah set a seal on the hearts of those who do not know.
030.060
YUSUFALI: So patiently persevere: for verily the promise of Allah is true: nor let those shake thy firmness, who have (themselves) no certainty of faith.
PICKTHAL: So have patience (O Muhammad)! Allah's promise is the very truth, and let not those who have no certainty make thee impatient.
SHAKIR: Therefore be patient; surely the promise of Allah is true and let not those who have no certainty hold you in light estimation."
If I am correct, Alhamdulillah. If I am wrong, Astaghfirullah
As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
Quranic Miracles - Khairan - 11-09-2006
Quote:Correct me if I am wrong bc I am alot but I think the whole point of this thread was to point out interesting aspects of the Qur'an that would make any rational mind stop and pause. How a desert illiterate knew that mountains extended deep into the earth, how this illiterate knew the stages of microscopic embryological development, how he knew 1400 years ago what has only just been "discovered" in the Western world in the last one to two hundred years should provoke some reflection on exactly what kind of book the Qur'an is.Oh, I'm not suggesting anything of the kind. However, I do think the above is good advice -- it certainly cast the Qur'an/science debate issue in a new light for me when I first read it. The quote is not about why YOU believe in the Qur'an or Islam, but a reminder of how one ought to think when discussing the science in the Qur'an with an unbeliever.
<b>I do not believe (insert correction here) that anyone on this board would claim that they believe in the Qur'an solely because of the scientific aspects of it. </b> But this aspect can serve to strengthen what already exists.
Quranic Miracles - Muslimah - 11-09-2006
Bismillah
Quote:There are no scientific discoveries in the quran. Repeating the dogma that there are, does not change the facts. I won't waste my time with the video link as it would be a complete waste of bandwidth.
You are correct here johndoe.
Actually, the issue just needs re phrasing. Those are not discoveries, looking from a Quranic perception, since Quran was revealed by Allah Who Is the Creator of all those issues. Those were facts foretold and taught to an illiterate, just as Dan said, 1400 years ago which didnt become known to us till recent eras. This is the whole point. For instance, during the time of the Messenger salla Allah a`lhyee wa sallam, mountains were not know to be items to pin down the earth, only in recent eras that geologists found out about them.. etc.
Thus, the sentence just needed to be re phrased. But as usual, when u converse, u dont focus on the core of interest which is that this knowledge was brought to humanity thru and illiterate who never left Arabia 1400 years ago. But u just argue in marginal superfacial matters whether or not those issue can be classified as scientific discoveries.
They are so to us John, I mean in the modern times, they were discoveries.