+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Discussion of Beliefs (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: The Sh'ites (/showthread.php?tid=6638)
The Sh'ites - wel_mel_2 - 03-20-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum,
Quote:Hence, my post! It appears as though "Muslim" is a term used very loosely. It's one thing to say that Islam prohibits sects & divisions, but when you think outside your complacent little bubble, Wael, you'll realize that things aren't quite what they seem. I can't just accept your words on a shaky foundation. Please reason this out for me. Give me a breakdown of Tim's presentation rather than a frivolous statement. Discuss! Discuss! Discuss!
We did not deny that Muslims today are divided amongst themselves, but at the same time we are saying that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh predicted that Muslims will be divided into 73 groups, but he also tells us, that <b>one group only will be on the right path</b>, <b>the one to which he and his companions belong.</b> And Alhamdulelah, the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions its an open book, there is nothing hidden, so its so easy for Muslims to follow the proper teaching of Islam by simply following the example of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions.
<b>Problem solved. </b>
Salam
Wael.
The Sh'ites - Faith Hope Charity - 03-22-2007
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.
G'day boys :wavey:
Quote:"According to the Quran, Islam may not be the true faith because Muslims are in a state of schism from the very beginning."
Here's the number one for me. It is pretty much when this guy's opinion was dismissed. Like welmel said, he needs to quote to prove his claim. Read the Qur'an a few times and have never seen anything close to this point, so I too would like some verification.
My apologies to all, especially Tim. He does give a Quranic reference at the very end of the chapter - 6:59 "Have nothing to do with those who have split up their religion into sects. Allah will call them to account and declare to them what they have done"... & 43:65 (woes to Jewish & Christian factions for disputing amongst themselves).
Dan, if Tim didn't state his opinion off the bat (by the way I watered it down - it was way more harsh), would you still dismiss the lot of it (which I accurately copied word for word)???
Quote:We did not deny that Muslims today are divided amongst themselves, but at the same time we are saying that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh predicted that Muslims will be divided into 73 groups, but he also tells us, that <b>one group only will be on the right path</b>, <b>the one to which he and his companions belong.</b> And Alhamdulelah, the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions its an open book, there is nothing hidden, so its so easy for Muslims to follow the proper teaching of Islam by simply following the example of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions.
<b>Problem solved. </b>
How many Islamic groups are there currently? Does anyone know? Has the target been reached?
Here's my dilemma... every sect believes it's the "one". So is it possible that there'll be an assortment of "Muslims" in Paradise - those who regardless of being Sunni, Shiite, Alawate, Druze etc, desired to follow the prophet (PBUH) & did the best they could? If not, then Wael, I volunteer you to go tell Mahmoud Ahmadinejad & Bashar al-Assad :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote:I read it and he's Not Objective nor can he speak on the issues of Division in Islam, because he's not a scholar in Islam or an expert, but rather he he may be able to speak on division in Cotholosim because he's one of your people . has an alterior motive behind his writings <b>Islam exposed</b> as what? in his view? I dont see how any Muslim who knows their religion would listen to this form of doubt....Interfaith diolog... What does this mean dont say the truth about someone who is guilty of Shirk? Not permissable for the Muslims to engage in this type of diolog but rather we are to call you to worship Allah alone with wisdom and nice Exaltation. and NOT share the platform... even though many muslims engage in this It is Still <b>NOT permissable</b> Thus it is an Innovation and rejected
Comon Abdul, don't be so hard on the man. That's a cop out! Whether he's credible or not doesn't change the fact that there's a serious sectarian problem in Islam. How does one know what teachings are authentic when there's so many variations out there? Am I correct in assuming that no Islamic group can confidently trace their roots back to Muhammad (PBUH) & his "true" companions?
Personally, I like the Sufis because they're highly spiritual & aren't really a denomination :) What do you guys think of them?
I'm eager to learn more about this topic.
Thanks & may Allah bless all Muslims.
The Sh'ites - Dan - 03-22-2007
Bismillah
"Dan, if Tim didn't state his opinion off the bat (by the way I watered it down - it was way more harsh), would you still dismiss the lot of it (which I accurately copied word for word)???"
A disbelieve in Islam giving tafsir on the Qur'an? Now why would I dismiss that?
"Am I correct in assuming that no Islamic group can confidently trace their roots back to Muhammad (PBUH) & his "true" companions?"
Nope and clearly you are not listening... or wanting to listen to what has already been stated. Muslims judge who they are by how they adhere to the origianl teachings of the Qur'an and ahadeeth as the Prophet and his companions understood it. Go study the other sects and you will see (especially some sufis...) that they derive their teachings from other than these sources, eg Greek philosophers, "saints," etc.. These sects will ignore prohibitions and commands from the Qur'an and Ahadeeth, thus taking them outside the folds of Islam.
Shi'ites who claim that Ali was supposed to receive the revelation go against the first pillar of Islam and reject an aspect of iman involving the angels, which states they are beings who can ONLY do the Will of Allah. They have no freewill. This claim denies an attribute of the angels (insinuating that the Angel Jibril disobeyed Allah and gave the revelation to Muhammad saws instead of Ali) which negates an aspect of belief. If you have even one aspect of belief incorrect, then you are not a believer. This is per the well known hadith of Jibril. If you want it, it is easy to find.
I'd draw a parallel between the sects in Islam and christianity but your eyerolling icon is getting old so I'll let you try to understand this and other previous posts without the aid of analogies, per your requests.
The Sh'ites - Muslimah - 03-22-2007
Bismillah
Quote:Bismillah:
It is the fault of the people who create divisions and invint lies against Allah and His messenger.
Salam
Wael.
Not only this, but why dont u look at it as a clear evidence of Prophet Mohamed's being a Messenger. I mean this is against Muslims, yet it is happening. The whole idea is that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him foretold it. But CC cannt look at it this way, obviously, he is just hoping to make it a fault.
Well CC the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him informed us. Wael, I fully agree with u, a Muslim must be simply muslim (following Quran and Sunnah) not a sunni, shia,,,,etc. Coming into this will categorise us.
May Allah Teach us our Deen ameen properly.
The Sh'ites - Muslimah - 03-22-2007
Bismillah
Just so that we dont make a blanket, not every shia claim that Ali was supposed to be the Messenger, even among them, they are split:
I found this link which may help us all gain more knowledge:
http://www.amaana.org/ismaili.html
On a previous search, I even came accross a declaration made by a group of A`lawy scholars, but unfortunately it was in Arabic. But the statement is actually worth translating, I will try Insh a Allah.
The Sh'ites - wel_mel_2 - 03-23-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:How does one know what teachings are authentic when there's so many variations out there?
Simply by following the Companions of the Prophet pbuh, who were neither Sunnis nor Shi'is. They were also neither Hanafis, nor Shafi'is, nor Malikis, nor Hanbalis. <b>They were only Muslims</b>. They believed in Allah and His Messenger, <b>they accepted and understood the Qur'an and the Sunnah</b> and they strived to live their lives as best as they could following these two sources. This is all what is required in Islam, we do not have to put any other label upon ourselves beside Islam. So if you decided to be a Muslim one day (<i>Insh a Allah</i>), Just call yourself a Muslim and don’t worry about other names, labels or groups.
May Allah always keep us among the one group that follow the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions. Ameen.
Salam
Wael.
The Sh'ites - Faith Hope Charity - 03-23-2007
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.
Quote:Simply by following the Companions of the Prophet pbuh, who were neither Sunnis nor Shi'is. They were also neither Hanafis, nor Shafi'is, nor Malikis, nor Hanbalis. <b>They were only Muslims</b>. They believed in Allah and His Messenger, <b>they accepted and understood the Qur'an and the Sunnah</b> and they strived to live their lives as best as they could following these two sources. This is all what is required in Islam, we do not have to put any other label upon ourselves beside Islam. So if you decided to be a Muslim one day (<i>Insh a Allah</i>), Just call yourself a Muslim and don’t worry about other names, labels or groups.
May Allah always keep us among the one group that follow the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions. Ameen.
I think I finally get it now :) You don't necessarily have to be part of the Sunni tradition to be a true follower of the prophet (PBUH). I guess it's just a little misleading when we hear that "one group" will enter Paradise, but now I gather that this group is diverse & open to all Muslims who practice their faith in good conscience. I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for the piece of mind.
God bless.
The Sh'ites - Muslimah - 03-23-2007
Bismillah
You finally got it FHC. The criteria is not what one calls him/herself but the criteria is how one practices, follows, applies Quran and Sunna.