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+--- Thread: Salvation from Hellfire (/showthread.php?tid=9959)
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Salvation from Hellfire - HINZ - 05-04-2003
yea i understand
Salvation from Hellfire - Rock - 05-20-2003
you said David
{The Qur'anic and Biblical views of Allah are totally different. If a person presupposes that the Qur'anic view of Allah is the one that they will believe in, then the incarnation does not and will never make sense. There is no way to prove the incarnation if Allah is seen in this way.
However, the incarnation will make perfect sense if someone presupposes that the Biblical view of Allah is the one they want to believe in}
Let us try the unbiased sense.I try as a normal person to imagine my God,the creator of the universe,I can`t ,I think that my God must be something great ,He must be completely different from all things he created,He is beyond my imagination.
I remember how the prophets imagine the God
How did Abraham (pbuh)see his god?
Refer to holy Quran 6:76-79
[to the end that when the night darkened the world around him(Abraham),he saw,for the first time,a heavenly body with his inward sight glittering in the vault of heaven.This said he,<<this is my god>>.But when it set and disappeared below the horizon,he said:<< I just do not like things that set,pass away and cease to be>>.
Then when he saw the moon,again with his inward sight,rising into view and over head it sat:"this is my god",he said.But again when it vanished from sight he said:"Unless the supreme controlling and influencing power actuates me with thought and guidance,I will certainly be one of those people who are lost in the maze of error".
But when he saw the sun rising,he acknowledged him his god;"it is greater",he said.But when it set,he opened the eyes of his mind and said"O my people,I am indeed innocent of all that you incorporate with the Eternal God",
"Now do I turn my face and set my thoughts with firmness in fedility, allegiance and in the fulfilment of all duties owed to him, the Eternal God,Creator of the heavens and the earth,and I am not one of those who incorporate with Him other deities".]
What did Moses(pbuh) ask his God?
refer to holy Quran 7:143
[And when Moses came to the place set for our assignation,the hallowed environment spoke God`s presence which was proclaimed by sound.And when God spoke to Moses,he expressed his wish,thus:"O God,my creator,"he said,"may I perceive you by sight!"You shall not be able to see me",said God,"but turn your attention to the mountain there",if it remains standing in its place,you shall then see me".And when God manifested to the mountain an infinitely short flash of his mercifully invisible glorious light,the mountain was levelled with the ground.Terribly shocked,Moses dropped unconscious,and when he recovered from the swoon,he said:"Praise be to you O GOd and extolled are your glorious attributes;in lowliest plight do I stand repentant and I am the first and foremost of those who conform to your will."
Here I stopped,I start thinking about"incarnation",I ask myself is it true that this great God needs to incarnate to convice us with any thing?,is it true that the creator of this marvel universe can not tell us with what He wants without this incarnation?,Is it He who send his message to his prophets without incarnation?
Even you David,you mentioned that you found Him beside you when you need Him,He guide you when you need Him.
For me I pray to the God asking Him help and I found his guidance,I feel his pleasure and his angry with me.
Finally I found that I can see my God only on one way,I remember his words to prophet Muhammad
(pbuh)when the pagans ask him "to whom is your God related"I remember the God words
.{Say{O Muhammad}:<<He is God and He is one>>;<<God is infinite,Absolute,and all creatures,spiritual,animate and inanimate,are in need of Him while He is in need of no one>>.<<He did not beget nor was He begotten>>,<<And like unto Him there is non>>.} holy Quran 112
You said David
{In Islam, Allah has 99 names. However, "love" is not one of them as far as I have been able to tell in the various lists I have seen of the 99 names. }
Is there is any doubt that merciful,forgiving.munificent.warmhearted,clement,beneficent....mean a great real love.
YOu said David
{it appears to me that Allah seems to only love those who love Him. The only time it is mentioned that Allah is loving is in relationship to those who follow Him. Anyone else seems to be outside of that love until they have come under submission (islam/salam) to Him.}
God love all Adam`s sons except those who did`nt believe in him,those who did`nt believe that He is the only God,and I think this is fair,this is fair,this is fair.
listen to the god words
{O son of Adam,were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me,ascribing no partner to Me,I would bring you forgiveness as great as it}...Hadith Qudsi
You said David
{The Islamic view of Paradise is a place where Allah is not obviously present. There are many pleasures to be experienced, but Allah is not a part of any of these pleasures. Allah is never mentioned as being a part of the experience of being in Paradise, and He is "absent" from being there.}
Listen to the God words describing good peoples in the day of Resurrection
{ There and then some faces shall feature radiant countenance expressive of deeply felt joy. Joy derived from the countenance of God,their Creator,joy clothes their souls with the comely vesture of innocence,as a feature of the visible radiance of the divine.} Holy Quran 75:22-23
{Allah will say on the day of Resurrection:Where are those who love one another through My glory?Today I shall give them shade in my shade,it being a day when there is no shade but My shade.}....Hadith Qudsi
Allah said about fasting
{.....he who fasts has two joys:a joy when break his fast and a joy when he meets his Lord....}..Hadith Qudsi
You said David
{Allah is described as a loving Father. He is seen as a Father}
I hope that one day you will feel that the God love is not compareble with any love,even the father`s love.
finally,I like to mention to you this words of the GOd
{my faithful servant`s rewarded from Me,if I have taken to Me his best friend from amongst the inhabitants of the world and he has the borne it patiently for My sake,shall be nothing less than Paradise.}...Hadith Qudsi
*edited by Muslimah*