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An Important Quesion - Muslimah - 06-04-2003
Ok Whisper
You want us to answer the main question. Fine truly, I would logically lOVE AND RESPECT more a God who does not step a foot on earth or materilaize into a man. A God who materializes into a man, put on the cross praying and saying Oh Lord save me from this cup. Why would I love a god who eates, drinks and execuse me respond to the call of nature like any other human being. A Lord of the Worlds has to be of a super nature. One who is capable of managing the universe. One who can make me sleep tight and secure knowing He is there Awake eternally. This is the Lord I would like to have Whisper.
And sincerely I would like to give you a suggestion. We never have the intention to put you down or anything. Also I would strongly suggest that you just once keep your premature judgement and self defense mechanism aside and read the Quran without the fear to discover that It is correct.
And most welcome Whisper to our forum.
![[Image: smile.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
An Important Quesion - Purgetory - 06-04-2003
I'll make it simpler (if it does get any simpler than it already is :roll: ), anyone, is more than welcome to come here and start a discussion as long as they talk clean, respect those they are discussing with, and respect that which you are discussing. If you stick to these laws, then I will stand by you against anyone who edited/deleted your posts.
If your questions/comments are not yet replyed to, please tell us what is it that you think we are ignoring specificaly, and inshallah we will answer them all.
I hope things are clearer now, enjoy your stay. I'm sure we all would like to learn more about you just like you surely want to learn more about us.
We all have our differences, but before we became that of a follower, we are all humans, brothers from one man and one woman.
May we start a new page now.
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
- George Orwell
:wink:
An Important Quesion - wel_mel - 06-05-2003
Whisper,
are you angry becouse we closed the Forum"The Qur'an - Jesus" ?? and you said you cannot answer our questions becouse of this reason. so how about the other Forums ??? why you did not even pay attention on our questions there "An Important Quesion" and "Changes in the Bible" ??
however,we are willing to help you, to answer your questions INSHAA ALLAH and to cooperate with you in any matter you want. but pls once again there is no use of saying any bad word against Allah, Islam and Muhammad(PBUH).. is that OK for you Whisper ??
take care Whisper
wel_mel
An Important Quesion - amai - 06-05-2003
[i:0ca58528dd]Proclaim: "You shall obey God and the messenger." If they turn away, God does not love the disbelievers." Surah 3:32[/i:0ca58528dd]
for short, Allah [b:0ca58528dd]doesn't[/b:0ca58528dd] love Christians like me.
i love the God of the Bible because I learned(after some studying) that He loves me.
i thought before, "how can you love Someone whom you can't even see?" but of course, i learned better.
now i think, "how can you love someone you can't see and who doesn't even love you?"
Allah loves conditionally, most humans love conditionally, but God [b:0ca58528dd]does not.[/b:0ca58528dd]
peace.
An Important Quesion - Muslimah - 06-05-2003
AS Salam a`alman itaba`alohda
Oh amai you raised a very good point may Allah help me explain this to you.
Allah does not practice black mailing on us to worship Him. When He sends rain He sends on USA, England exactly like on Egypt and Saudi Arabia. People benefit regardless of their faith. He does not restrict usage on believers only. A pagan, a non believer, a Muslim or a disobedient believer all use His bounties. He allows plants to grow everywhere. He does not come and tell plants don’t allow a non believer to take you off or eat you. Did you ever see the sea refuses to carry a ship of non Muslims? Did you ever see the rain falling on a country where both Muslims and non Muslims reside when it allows only Muslims to benefit? Did you see rivers reject non Muslims to use its water for drinking? Of course not. In other words in this life Allah does not discriminate between those who believe in Him and those who don’t. No we all share His sustenance. It is His duty to sustain us being The Sustainer. And yet no one is forced. It will not make much difference to Him. He shall remain eternally the Only True Deity Who is Worthy to be worshiped. See even Satan knows very well that Allah is the Only One Allah Who begotten no one nor was He begotten. We the children of Adam were given practical training on that. However, I may go into more detail. Satan was from the Jinn who were living on earth. They messed up, got involved in killing unlike Satan who proved to be an excellent worshiper at that time. Allah rewarded him by taking him up to live among angles in heaven. When Allah decided to create mankind. He started with Adam who was made of mud, unlike Satan who was created of fire. Allah in an indication to show the angels that they shall be involved somehow or the other with this creature and his children commanded them to prostrate for him. They all obeyed immediately unlike Satan who was very arrogant to do so boldly telling Allah that he is made of fire so how come he prostrates to one made of mud. That was the beginning of our old and eternal enmity with Satan. Allah throw him out of His Mercy, yet allowed him time to live and prove his point. Mind you on the Day of Judgement Satan shall free himself of the responsibility towards those who followed him. But as long as Allah fully explained to us that we must worship only Him, sent us Prophets and Messengers, and allowed us a chance after the other. Then failure to do so we blame no one but ourselves.
Praise be to Allah who guided us to this and prayer and peace be upon His Messenger
__________________
An Important Quesion - Muslimah - 06-05-2003
Now to make it more simple for you to judge. Insh a Allah I will give you an example from real life:
Now if you are hired to work with Microsoft. Upon placement, you will be presented with the employment by law in order to know exactly what you must and must not do. You will be acquainted with your rights and responsibilities as well as penalties imposed in case of violating the by law in any way. Penalties of course vary between verbal, written warnings, salary deduction, holding of promotions or ever termination of services based on the over all evaluation. Now suppose you decided to attend at Oracle every single day. You were there just on time, very punctual, you always met the deadlines in terms of assignments and you accomplished your tasks in a highly professional manner. Will you still be paid by Microsoft and the end of the month? I gues not. Not only this, you will be fired for regular absence without an execuse. Can you hold Microsoft responsible? Of course not. You violated the by law.
__________________
An Important Quesion - Muslimah - 06-05-2003
One more important point I would like to add here. Both you and Whisper have been complaining about editing and deleting your posts. Let me ask you something. Did you notice any of us transgressing or dealing with you in an ill-mannered way? I guess not. Did you notice any of us speaking about Prophet Issa prayer and peace be upon him in an irrespectable manner. No way other wise we are in great trouble. See we are commanded to believe in all of the Messengers and Prophets of Allah and respect them totally. But both you and Whisper give yourself the right to adopt an irrespectable manner talking about Allah and Prophet Mohamed (PAPBUH) which we can not accept or else we will be in trouble. You just feel enthusiastic for being on an Islamic board and able to say whatever you want to. You feel that you really want to be a challenging provoking member who managed to steer firing discussions and was able huh to defeat those Muslims. Let me turn your questions. Why do you hate Muslims? And you know what this question came to me from someone who embraced Islam recently. She told me: strange people turned against me just the minute they found out. Same people she knew before. Can you answer this for me? As for us here on the board, why don’t you try to work on adopting a more friendly attitude towards people who did not harm you. After all we are all humans.
Thank you very much for your time. It is a long post though. Huh
An Important Quesion - amai - 06-05-2003
i try to be open-minded here, and considered your posts.
i think you're saying that Allah doesn't discriminate. he treats Muslims and nonMuslims alike. He sends rain to Iraq, he sends one also in US.
He sustains everyone's very basic needs, even if we don't believe in him. because of that, he deserves to be worshipped. but why does he sustain our needs? because he loves us, cares for us, or just playing around?
i know you can't answer these questions, since you're definitely not Allah. you don't know what's going on in his mind and you don't know the reason for him doing these things.
but it seems to me as if he does that because he cares and loves us. if he doesn't love nonbelievers, he could just let it rain on most of Middle East more often and let the USA suffer from drought. but he doesn't do that, does he?(it's even the other way around!) is it safe to conclude that he loves us?
if he does, then that'll be contradicting Quran - a supposedly infallible book. if he doesn't, i don't know of any reason why he does amazing things for me. like how our group won 1st place at some contest, even for the fact that I asked the triune God for help. and mind you, no one expected that. our performance wasn't the best, i perceived that the audience were even bored. (i considered winning that contest a miracle!)
but then i guess, Allah isn't held accountable for what human's free will causes.
note: [i:c5cda70a91]us[/i:c5cda70a91] is mostly referred to nonbelievers in the post above.
Quote:When Allah decided to create mankind. He started with Adam who was made of mud,[/quote:c5cda70a91]very interesting. (copied and pasted from carm.org)
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of [b:c5cda70a91][u:c5cda70a91]congealed blood[/b:c5cda70a91][/u:c5cda70a91]," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from [b:c5cda70a91][u:c5cda70a91]mud[/b:c5cda70a91][/u:c5cda70a91] moulded into shape," (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from [b:c5cda70a91][u:c5cda70a91]dust[/b:c5cda70a91][/u:c5cda70a91], then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of [b:c5cda70a91][u:c5cda70a91]nothing?[/u:c5cda70a91][/b:c5cda70a91]" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a [b:c5cda70a91][u:c5cda70a91]sperm-drop[/b:c5cda70a91][/u:c5cda70a91]; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!" (16:4).
no offense, but which is which? congealed blood/embryo, mud, dust, sperm-drop or nothing?(i double checked the verses with the quran i downloaded. just to let you know that i don't swallow everything written on Christian sites, and neither am i brainwashed.)
one more: what's with the [b:c5cda70a91]We[/b:c5cda70a91] thing? why does it seem as if Allah has someone who created humans with him? are there other creators(or gods)?
p.s.
if sometimes i sound blaspheming, sarcastic or insulting to you, i just want you to know that more often than not, i didn't mean to. (wow. i rhymed)
An Important Quesion - Muslimah - 06-05-2003
Finally amai we are getting on some mutual ground to talk. By the way I am not offended at all. Such points may seem puzzling to someone like you. However, I am in a hurry now. If u just wait Insh a Allah will give you all answers. Don't worry no contradiction non what so ever. And thank u for answering the other post. Will Insha Allah do more on that too.
An Important Quesion - Amira2003 - 06-06-2003
Question:
Did Allaah create man from clay or from something else that is not fully described in the Qur’aan?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah created Adam (peace be upon him) from the earth i.e., from what it contains. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Thereof (the earth) We created you, and into it We shall return you, and from it We shall bring you out once again”
[Ta-Ha 20:55]
He created him from the dust of the earth, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust…”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]
There are many similar verses in the Qur’aan.
Then the dust was combined with water to form clay, as the Lord of the Worlds says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He it is Who has created you from clay, and then has decreed a (stated) term (for you to die). And there is with Him another determined term (for you to be resurrected)”
[al-An’aam 6:2]
There are also many similar verses.
This clay was sticky – or it was said, viscous – as it says in the verse (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, We created them of a sticky clay”
[al-Saaffaat 37:11]
Ibn Manzoor said: the words laazib (sticky) comes from the root lazuba which has the meaning of becoming sticky and solid.
Lisaan al-‘Arab, 1/738
Then this sticky clay became muntin (stinking). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud [min hama’in masnoon]”
[al-Hijr 15:26]
Al-Raazi said:
Al-hama’ means black mud.
(Mukhtaar al-Sihaah, p. 64).
It says in Lisaan al-‘Arab (1/61):
Al-hama’ means black, stinking mud. In the Qur’aan it says “min hama’in masnoon.”
And it says in Lisaan al-‘Arab (13/227):
“Masnoon means muntin (stinking), as in the verse ‘min hamaa’in masnoon.’ Abu ‘Amr said: this means altered and stinking. Abu’l-Haytham said: sunna al-ma’, fa huwa masnoon, i.e., the water changed, so it was altered (masnoon).”
When this mud was mixed with sand, it became salsaal (dried clay).
Al-Raazi said:
Salsaal is hot mud mixed with sand, so it starts to clank or clatter when it dries. If it is baked with fire it becomes fired clay or earthenware pottery.
Mukhtaar al-Sihaah, 1/154.
It says in Lisaan al-‘Arab (11/382):
Al-Salsaal min al-teen (clay made from mud) is that which has not been made into pottery. Any mud or clay that dries is described as salla saleelan (rattling or clattering) … i.e., it makes a noise like new pottery. Thus salsaal is likened to pottery, as in the verse,
“He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery”
[al-Rahmaan 55:14 – interpretation of the meaning]
All of this is confirmed by the hadeeth of Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari who said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘Allaah created Adam from a handful that He gathered from the entire earth, so the sons of Adam come like the earth. Some of them are red, some are white, some are black and some are in between. Some of them are easy, some of them are difficult, some are evil and some are good.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2955; Abu Dawood, 4693. Al-Tirmidhi said that this hadeeth is hasan saheeh, and it was classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan, 14/29; al-Haakim, 2/288; and al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3926).
This is how Adam was created: from the earth – i.e. from its dust – which was then mixed with water to form mud, which then became black, stinking mud. And this dust was created from the earth which is partly sand and when it is mixed it becomes sounding clay like the clay of pottery.
Hence when Allaah describes the creation of Adam in the Qur’aan, in each case He describes one of the stages through which his creation passed and through which the mud was formed. So there is no contradiction in the verses of the Qur’aan.
Then after that the sons of Adam started to multiply and they were created through water which is the sperm and fluids which are emitted by men and women, as is well known.
This is explained by the Qur’aan in the verses (interpretation of the meanings):
“And it is He Who has created man from water, and has appointed for him kindred by blood, and kindred by marriage”
[al-Furqaan 25:54]
“Then He made his offspring from semen of despised water (male and female sexual discharge)”
[al-Sajdah 32:8]
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
When the perfection, complete power, all-encompassing knowledge, ever-executed will and utmost wisdom of the Lord decreed that His creation should be of materials of different kinds, and that they should vary in their forms and attributes and natures, His wisdom decreed that He should take a handful of dust from the earth, then mix it with water. So it became like black stinking mud. Then the wind was sent upon it and it dried out, until it became clay like pottery. Then it was given shape and limbs and faculties, and each part of it was given a shape suited to its purpose.
Then he mentioned how people are created by means of intercourse and the emission of semen.
Al-Tabaayun fi Aqsaam al-Qur’aan, p. 204
And Allaah knows best.
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