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Onward Christian Soldiers - ronniv93 - 10-21-2004
What group of people are you all calling the "crusaders"?
Onward Christian Soldiers - Muslimah - 10-21-2004
to ronniv, crusadors as defined even by Bush is the group of armies invading in the name of the cross. Just look at the song, we didnt compose this song, remember.
Onward Christian Soldiers - Muslimah - 10-21-2004
Quote: Bismillah
As Salam alaikum
Didn't you learn anything from what happened to my work?
Jazaki Allah, ukti.
As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
![[Image: biggrin.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/bb/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
I know Dan, but we must still talk, we must fight to change the evil with all possible means the least of which is with the heart
Onward Christian Soldiers - ronniv93 - 10-21-2004
I wasn't really commenting on the song, Muslimah. I've personally never seen or heard it before.
I've never heard Bush give a definition for the term either; I must have missed it.
In any case, who is invading in the "name of the cross"? One cannot really say that it's the U.S. I'm not saying that I think going into Iraq was a good course of action, but we have a policy of separation of church and state in this country for the very purpose of preventing the possibility of military or government action in the name of a religion.
And the soldiers are made up of Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, agnostics and who knows what other kind of beliefs. That's why I asked the question; it would be hard IMHO to call all military staff "crusaders", especially if this is the definition we're working from.
Onward Christian Soldiers - Muslimah - 10-22-2004
Just for your info ronniv, before Bush launched the war on Iraq in one of his speaches, he called it a crusade about which he received major criticism even in the Congress. He then backed up and said he misexpressed. That is what I meant. and the song is about the ancient crusade. Ok
Onward Christian Soldiers - ronniv93 - 10-22-2004
In fairness to him, I think he just sincerely made a goof in his speech. (<i>He often does</i>). LOL. Like during one of the debates, he made reference to the "internet<b>s</b>", as if there is more than 1 of them.
He's not the best with language, I'll admit.
But I really don't think that he had any clue that using that word in reference to a majority-Muslim nation was so sensitive. *I* had no idea that it was still a continuing sore spot until 2002 myself when I started "meeting" and talking to Muslims online. I'm pretty positive that he didn't mean it in the sense of a "Christian Crusade". The word has a meaning outside of the tragic Crusades of the past.
Onward Christian Soldiers - Muslimah - 10-22-2004
u didnt need to explain his position, to me I dont really care about his position, i merely explained what Crusade is because u asked.
Onward Christian Soldiers - Dan - 10-23-2004
Bismillah
From what I have heard, crusade has the same connotations for muslims as the word jihad for christians. It is a misunderstanding of how the two words are truly used in the language. I mean I have heard phrases like "a crusade against hunger" which obviously does not mean that a literal war is occurring. When the word jihad is used in the Qur'an it is many times referring to a struggle. Miscommunication seems to be a source of problems. Many times people are so busy trying to be heard that they forget to listen.
Peace
Onward Christian Soldiers - Muslimah - 10-23-2004
jazakum Allah khairan Dan for this explanation, I always had in mind the CRUSADE which Salahudeen with the Support of Allah DEFEATED Alhamdulelah and sent back home happy and satisfied about Jerusalem...May Allah free it ameen ameen ameen
Onward Christian Soldiers - radiyah - 10-23-2004
Quote:<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Muslimah" data-cite="Muslimah" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="643" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Last week I was talking to my co workers, I told them during the preparation for US attack against Iraq last year, Egyptians went into large very organized demonstrations. They even spent the night in one of the most and largest squared in Cairo in protest against the military strike.
I asked my co workers, did anyone think of initiating a peaceful march to Al Azhar to pressue Shiek Al Azhar to call for prohibiting alcohl drinks and gambling casino operating in 5 star hotels.
Demonstrations are a waist of muslim energy, resources and time if you ask me, as all we do is litter the streets and shout in the streets. At the end of the day, shouting in the streets is shouting in the streets as no objective has been fulfilled apart from being under the illusion that we have done something. But have we really done something? Have we based our actions upon sunnah i.e. the "<b>practical principle</b>"? Which is actions based upon a thought i.e. the aqeedah for a particular objective which produces tangible results. This is the sunnah of Rasool (saw), never did he do an action which was not in accordance with his objective nor did his actions yield intangible results.
What did Salahuddin do to defeat the crusaders? He did not do a one man mission with guns blazing as that would not have achieved the objective. He based his actions upon this practical principle where he united the muslim armies and defeated the crusaders. This is why Salahuddin and Nooruddin Zenki have gone down in history as heroes, unlike those people who history has portrayed them as those who did nothing i.e. actions not based upon the aqeedah and not for the objective.
I can remember when the US invaded Iraq, Libya out of all places allowed demonstrations to take place. Libya is one of those countries where all public gatherings for political issues are banned. So why do demonstrations achieve little for the ummah but achieve more for the enemies of this noble ummah?
Is it because the enemies realise it is safer for them to let the muslims demonstrate/protest as this will release their anger by shouting. Rather than the muslims unleashing their anger out on the enemies???
These are the styles which the enemies will devise to difuse the emotions and energies from the sons of this ummah.
As for the crusaders and their song(s), we can quote many of Allah's ayahs/verses to demolish their songs as that is all they have. We have Allah SWT as a guardian/protector in this life and the next. Whereas the crusaders have no helpers nor protectors!
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I totally agree here with brother Deen, we really need to build ourselves and raise a new faithful generation that will abide by Sunnat Habeeb Allah(SWT), Muhammad(PBUH), only then our leaders by will of Allah will be changed and we will win again insha'Allah .
Quote: jazakum Allah khairan Dan for this explanation, I always had in mind the CRUSADE which Salahudeen with the Support of Allah DEFEATED Alhamdulelah and sent back home happy and satisfied about Jerusalem...May Allah free it ameen ameen ameen
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeen Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen