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Iraq and Abuse! - Dan - 05-19-2004
Bismillah
As salam alaikum
HB-She did not declare it true. Allah Did. That is why we count on it. Islam does not exist without a concept of heaven and hell.
To the muslims- Look at 9:82.
As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
Iraq and Abuse! - Hazam'sBro - 05-19-2004
How do you know Allah declared it to be true? Can't someone makeup scripture and pass it off as some sort of cosmic gag-real to influence ignorant and uneducated people?
Iraq and Abuse! - wel_mel - 05-19-2004
Allah knows well that you will ask this question,
that's why he mentioned in his Holy Book "Al Qur'an" 2:23 - And if ye are in doubt as to what we have revealed from time to time to our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true. 24 - But if ye cannot and of a surety ye cannot then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
salam
wel_mel
Iraq and Abuse! - Hazam'sBro - 05-19-2004
Quote:Allah knows well that you will ask this question, that's why he mentioned in his Holy Book \"Al Qur'an\" 2:23 - And if ye are in doubt as to what we have revealed from time to time to our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true. 24 - <b>But if ye cannot and of a surety ye cannot then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for those who reject Faith.</b>It seems as if those who do not believe will be cast into the "fire." Very interesting
salam
wel_mel
![[Image: rolleyes.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)
Ever think to yourself that maybe the writers of that book thought up that question to themselves before writing it down a sensible answer for it?
Iraq and Abuse! - Ibn_kumuna - 05-19-2004
Salaam Alaikum!
Hmmmm....that's an interesting thought
--Ibn
Iraq and Abuse! - Dan - 05-19-2004
Bismillah
HB-
To me, the challenge is very simple. All one has to do is come up with three verses (the shortest sura is only three verses). It does not have to excel the qur'an but merely match it. Don't you think this has been attempted? People through the ages have tried to claim some new verses have been discovered or that they also received revelation like the Qur'an. Due to the FACT that it came nowhere close to the grammatical and sytactical excellence of the Qur'an, people knew immediately that they were fake.
Have you even read the Qur'an, start to finish, with an openmind? Not glimpsing through for verses that support your beliefs but actually wiping out all prejudice first? Open it with the belief that may be it is not from God but also maybe it IS. I have found that at the very least people with this openmind come away accepting that there is something special about the Qur'an. Of course, it is up to you. Nobody can force you to do anything. It is also much easier to keep the same opinion than to change.
I also find it quite amusing that you even claim that only the ignorant and the uneducated follow Islam. As a person who claims to love his history, I thought that maybe you would know about the many advances that muslims made in the sciences of medicine, mathematics, philosophy, and architecture. The first psychiatric hospital was in Baghdad while the Europeans were still claiming that devils were the causes of mental illnesses. In this instance, it seems quite clear who the ignorant were. Even so you will continue with your same train of thought. Either Allah will Guide you or He will Allow you to continue in disbelief. I will still remain a muslim even with people like you resorting to name calling and labeling.
Iraq and Abuse! - Hazam'sBro - 05-19-2004
I have actually had to read parts of the 'Koran' from an English Literature course that I took while in undergrad. I thought the rhetoric was very similar to the bible. Here are some interesting quotes I extracted from it and presented to the class.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no
persecution, and religion should be only for Allah
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they
have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike;
therefore take not from among them friends until they fly
(their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then
seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take
not from among them a friend or a helper.
[4.95] The holders back from among the believers, not
having any injury, and those who strive hard in Allah's
way with their property and their persons are not equal
[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers
for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that
you should give to Allah a manifest proof against
yourselves?
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the
Christians for friends; they are friends of each other;
and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then
surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the
unjust people.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more
persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if
they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then
slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them
captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in
every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and
pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely
Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the
poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in
the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His
Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of
truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until
they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and
they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and
the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah;
these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the
saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy
them; how they are turned away!
[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and
the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail
over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers
who are near to you and let them find in you hardness;
and know that Allah is with those who guard (against
evil).
A religion that thrives for equality?
Iraq and Abuse! - Ibn_kumuna - 05-19-2004
Salaam Alaikum!
"A religion that thrives for equality?"
Sounds like a textbook question.
--Ibn
Iraq and Abuse! - Dan - 05-20-2004
Bismillah
Good thing those verses are taken out of context. If you knew the other verses surrounding them and the place and time for which they were revealed maybe they would be clearer.
Also, I did not ask if you have read part of the Qur'an. I clearly ask if you have read the whole thing front to back with an openmind.
Cutting and pasting can be fun though.