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60 Questions For The Christians - lifutushi - 06-30-2004
Assalamualaykoom,
dear sister Muslimah...
i've no doubt about Qur'an being the word of God. in fact i've never doubt my faith in Allah. i strongly believe that God is one, Allahu Ahad. La ilaha illa huwal Hayyul Qayyum..
i just don't understand the concept of trinity believed by Christians, no matter who is explaining it to me,be him a Christian or Muslim.
60 Questions For The Christians - joshua72 - 06-30-2004
Quote: Sobhan Allah Joshua
that is not how u explained and agreed on the explanation on another thread:
"QUOTE (Hesham Azmy)
<b>One God in Three Persons. </b>
I never said there was one God in three persons.
And the trinity does not say that either - I am just trying to explain to you the view of the trinity.
How is what I said above any different than what you quoted?
Both times, I said the trinity is one God, in three forms.
Three "forms" does not mean three "persons".
It makes no use to discuss or to debate this topic - no conversation will ever settle this matter. The muslim is not going to change his mind, nor is the christian.
There is only one who knows - and that is God, and none of us will know until we face him on the last day.
Just keep in mind what I said before:
Quote:<b>You say that God has the power to do all things. He need only say "Be!" and it is. </b>
You say this - yet you ask "How can God be in three forms?". It does not matter "how" He can do that - that is not for humans to worry about, nor is it up to you to decide what God can do and what He cannot do.
God has power over all things. He can do as he pleases, when he pleases. He is the Wise one - not us humans. We are not wise. And to say what God can and cannot do is surely not wise.
You question how or why God can do this, and you give reasons for why he cannot based on your own logic. Do you really think your own humanly logic can figure out the Creator of all the heavens and the Earth?
God can do things our human minds cannot possibly imagine. Our reason and our logic mean nothing when it comes to what God can do. Our minds cannot possibly grasp all the things God could do if he so pleases.
Do not question why God does what He does, and surely do not say what He can and cannot do. Can you not see the error in this?
That is not wise, my friends.
60 Questions For The Christians - Dan - 06-30-2004
Bismillah
Can you show me where in the Bible that Jesus teaches of the Trinity? The concept of theTrinity came from a council of MEN, not God. So here you have men using their reason and logic to explain the nature of God, just as you said that humans should not do. The majority of Christian beliefs and rituals are not based upon commands by Jesus but rather men reasoning out dogma for their religion.
Water can be in three forms but then it no longer has the properties that it did in the previous form. Water vapor can be breathed but try inhaling the liquid. Ice and vapor are on opposite ends of the temperature scale. If I have ice in my glass of water, I do not think that only one thing is contained in that glass. There are two, ice and water. Even with this anology though, you are falling into the very trap that you warned men should not do, comparing God to human ideas. Muslims do not do this. In our faith, we only say of God what God has told us. Nothing more.
60 Questions For The Christians - joshua72 - 06-30-2004
Quote: In our faith, we only say of God what God has told us. Nothing more.
Salam alaikum Dan,
With all due respect, please show me in the Quran were God says "I come in only one form, not three."
Sure - The Quran states many times that God is one god, not three gods. But I am not talking about three Gods - I am talking about One god in three forms, and so is the trinity.
That is a misconception I think early muslims gathered. They mistook the trinity as "three different gods" when christians know it as "only ONE god, but in three forms".
There is a difference there. Each "form" is not a different God. The christians do not believe there are three seperate Gods. And thats all the Quran says, is that there is only one God - and that is what the christians believe as well.
Nowhere in the Quran does God say he does not come in three forms - yet so many musims despise the trinity view.
And like yourself, they say and believe in only what God says - yet God himself has never said he does not come in three forms.
60 Questions For The Christians - Dan - 07-01-2004
Bismillah
The 112th sura of the Qur'an states it.
Surat Al-Ikhlas
"Say: He is ONE
The Absolute, the Eternal
He begotten not nor is begotten
And there is none comparable to Him."
This seems to pretty clearly disagree with any and all aspects of Trinity.
There are also ayats where Allah tells Christians to desist with the insistence of trinity. I only came on for a quick check. I will try to find the specific ayat tomorrow if you so wish even though I personally believe that surat Al-Ikhlas covers it.
60 Questions For The Christians - lifutushi - 07-01-2004
salaam...
dear Josh, i had a Christian friend, a catholic. i asked him about the concept of trinity and this is how he explained to me:
" trinity is like three families(parents and children) that belong to one big family (including grandparents). each one of the three is a family itself but when they came together, they are still only one family, not three families. the same goes to Jesus(pbuh), The Father and Holy Spirit, each of them is a God and all of them is still one God."
somehow i found that his explaination is different from yours. Now, does that means my friend is wrong about trinity?
i am not saying that he was right and you are wrong since i'm a muslim, and i do not believe in trinity...
60 Questions For The Christians - joshua72 - 07-01-2004
Quote: Bismillah
The 112th sura of the Qur'an states it.
Surat Al-Ikhlas
"Say: He is ONE
The Absolute, the Eternal
He begotten not nor is begotten
And there is none comparable to Him."
This seems to pretty clearly disagree with any and all aspects of Trinity.
There are also ayats where Allah tells Christians to desist with the insistence of trinity. I only came on for a quick check. I will try to find the specific ayat tomorrow if you so wish even though I personally believe that surat Al-Ikhlas covers it.
Salam,
No that is OK Dan.
I understand it from both view points now.
And besides, I do not want to get into a serious discussion debating our differences. I am here to learn about Islam - not teach about Christianity.
I am only a Christian because I am not truly a Muslim - but my faith is with Islam.
Thanks for posting that though, I appreciate it
![[Image: smile.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/bb/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
jazekallah khair
60 Questions For The Christians - joshua72 - 07-01-2004
Quote: salaam...
dear Josh, i had a Christian friend, a catholic. i asked him about the concept of trinity and this is how he explained to me:
" trinity is like three families(parents and children) that belong to one big family (including grandparents). each one of the three is a family itself but when they came together, they are still only one family, not three families. the same goes to Jesus(pbuh), The Father and Holy Spirit, each of them is a God and all of them is still one God."
somehow i found that his explaination is different from yours. Now, does that means my friend is wrong about trinity?
i am not saying that he was right and you are wrong since i'm a muslim, and i do not believe in trinity...
Salam alaikum,
No, I do not believe your friend is wrong - nor do I really believe I am right.
Like many things in The Bible, the trinity is open for human interpretation.
There are 6 billion people on Earth; that leaves 6 billion different possible interpretations of it.
This, among other things about The Bible/Christianity, is what led me to learn more of Islam.
60 Questions For The Christians - lifutushi - 07-01-2004
wa alaikum salaam...
thank you Josh for your explaination. now i a little bit more understand about how Christians see the concept of infinity.
this concept was too alien for me since we muslims have the same view on the oneness of Allah, we called it Tawheed.
the only difference in muslims all over the world is the branches of Fikh, which a little bit different from one school or Mazhab from another. the difference due to the variety of geologies and cultures.... but under a big umbrella, we are all the same.... Alhamdulillah...
60 Questions For The Christians - Dan - 07-01-2004
Bismillah
No debate here, bro. I was just trying to help clarify the Oneness of Allah. I had to go through a similar thought processes that you are now. I was just trying to help and Insha'Allah I did. If I did not, then it is only due to my lacking of understanding and knowledge. Sorry.